Southern California Open Class Corps

[tubajake]

Think the same can be said for texas now? Revolution was pretty big last year, but now Genesis and Forte are in Texas. All three are realitively small.

[84BDsop]

Think the same can be said for texas now? Revolution was pretty big last year, but now Genesis and Forte are in Texas. All three are realitively small.

The key is how close they are together. In SoCal in 2009 we had 9 corps (including one in the start up stages) -- 2 Sr, 1 startup, 1 World Class, 5 Open class (VK, Impulse, Mystikal, Gold, Incognito, PC, SoCal Dream, Kingsmen Sr, City Sound) within about a 40 mile radius....that's pretty tight. Taking Gold out of it (since they moved to San Diego), the farthest separation is between PC and Impulse at about 38 miles (about the same as Gold was, in fact, when they were in town)...'course, that's about three HOURS travel in the L.A. area

I can't think of any other region that has that many total corps in such a small area...and don't forget you had En Garde trying to form (in fact, we were the farthest out...50 miles from PC, 25 from VK, 36 from SoCal Dream)...so had we gotten off the ground in 08 and continued into 09,SoCal would've had TEN active corps in a fairly small area.

Forte and Genesis are more than 500 miles apart...that would be like Impulse affecting recruiting for Cascades. Forte and Revo are 280 miles apart....Impulse vs BDB. Genesis and Revo are the closest, still 260 miles...Impulse/BDB again.

Given the distance, I'd think those issues are more to the newness of the corps

Edited July 12, 2010 by 84BDsop

[rzeilinger]

removed by me....

Edited July 13, 2010 by rzeilinger

[CrunchyTenor]

Size of corps = size of human and financial resources. Not market saturation.

<snippety doo dah>

Many of the smaller So Cal corps just don't have the knowledge capability to be a big corps, it's not saturation.

And I'm stickin to my story.

Does that make more sense, Sam?

Also, regarding your saturation theory, when I joined VK in 1970 they were based in Santa Ana (later moved to Anaheim); Kingsmen were in Anaheim; Diplomats were in Lynwood; Royal Guardsmen were in Carson; California Crusaders were in Carson; Royal Blues were in Covina; Imperial Dragons were in Los Angeles; Third Generation was in Los Angeles; Koyasan Boy Scouts were in Los Angeles; guess where Monterey Park Girls were? Plus, there were 4 youth bands in the Greater LA Area (Burbank Police, Santa Fe Springs, Royal Cavaliers and Whittier Elks Cavaliers. Plus, Santa Ana Winds were just starting).

Garry in Vegas

[84BDsop]

Does that make more sense, Sam?

It does....he went over some point I had not considered....but I'll ALSO submit that the the 70s were 40 years ago...a lot has changed, bringing in other factors in addition to what Ron mentioned that can affect member numbers...operational costs are far higher now...Ron mentioned the insurance angle, for one thing.

As I said earlier, it's not just one thing...it's a mix of everything we've gone over.

[CrunchyTenor]

It does....he went over some point I had not considered....but I'll ALSO submit that the the 70s were 40 years ago...a lot has changed, bringing in other factors in addition to what Ron mentioned that can affect member numbers...operational costs are far higher now...Ron mentioned the insurance angle, for one thing.

As I said earlier, it's not just one thing...it's a mix of everything we've gone over.

You'd have to do a lot of number crunching to see if operational costs are higher, lower or a push when you factor in comparisons of the economy of the times.

There are all sorts of ways to look at it. But I'll submit that if a kid wants to find something else to do, whether it's 1970 or 2010, they'll find it. But you still must consider the number of eligible musicians now versus 40 years ago is much, much higher, and the corps are no more concentrated now than they were in 1970. Yet membership is lower.

I remember all of our staff having "real" jobs in addition to their corps duties, yet we competed reasonably well. I took personal/vacation time for the VK tours in the early 80's, too, because I had a "real" job. In fact, I employed a few VK drummers so they could guarantee time off for rehearsals and tour.

Anyway, it would thrill me to see all of the OC corps in SoCal with 70+ members. Closer to 100 would be better. And that would be great for Dream, too.

Garry in Vegas

[DCIHasBeen]

It's not an issue of numbers or corps or proximity. At one time VK and Kingsmen were LITERALLY across the street from each other, and they both fielded competitive corps.

IMO, it's all been a failure of effective recruiting ...

Garry in Vegas

Or maybe the activity just isn't as attractive to kids as it was bitd?

SoCal has always had a wide variety of other activities that kids can get involved with during the summer, and that's when time commitments and cost were far less than they are today.

[rzeilinger]

removed by me....

Edited July 13, 2010 by rzeilinger

[MiniSopGuy]

<snip>....But you still must consider the number of eligible musicians now versus 40 years ago is much, much higher, and the corps are no more concentrated now than they were in 1970. Yet membership is lower.....<snip>

Garry I have to disagree with you on this point.

In the 70's and 80's, there were considerably higher numbers of musicians. Now, we deal with kids just starting music in high school, if at all. Just looking at OC, yes there are some large and highly talented high school bands, but they are not the norm. Most of the high schools have smaller bands today than they did in the 70's and 80's. Those that were the powerhouse bands of the times are now some of the smallest.

I think much of getting high school students involved is in the marketing of the programs. I remember corps coming in and making presentations to the band class when I was in high school. They would come in and talk up the corps, show videos and get students excited to march. It seems now that the only marketing done to high schoolers is a flyer mailed out to the school band director. If that person decides to post it, you might get someone to join. However, if the band director is not familliar with or supportive of drum corps, there is a significant chance that the students will not even know what drum corps is.

Is there an easy solution? No. Are there things to still be tried? Yes. I think a return to the old way of marketing a corps to prospective members may be one solution. Personal contact with the band directors in your marketing area and letting them know your goals and objectives and how it will benefit thier program is important. If it will not benefit their program, they will not get strongly behind the idea. Follow that up with a professional presentation with all the bells and whistles to get students excited is a must.

The first hard step is getting your foot in the door.

[dustyboo]

Garry I have to disagree with you on this point.

In the 70's and 80's, there were considerably higher numbers of musicians. Now, we deal with kids just starting music in high school, if at all. Just looking at OC, yes there are some large and highly talented high school bands, but they are not the norm. Most of the high schools have smaller bands today than they did in the 70's and 80's. Those that were the powerhouse bands of the times are now some of the smallest.

I think much of getting high school students involved is in the marketing of the programs. I remember corps coming in and making presentations to the band class when I was in high school. They would come in and talk up the corps, show videos and get students excited to march. It seems now that the only marketing done to high schoolers is a flyer mailed out to the school band director. If that person decides to post it, you might get someone to join. However, if the band director is not familliar with or supportive of drum corps, there is a significant chance that the students will not even know what drum corps is.

Is there an easy solution? No. Are there things to still be tried? Yes. I think a return to the old way of marketing a corps to prospective members may be one solution. Personal contact with the band directors in your marketing area and letting them know your goals and objectives and how it will benefit thier program is important. If it will not benefit their program, they will not get strongly behind the idea. Follow that up with a professional presentation with all the bells and whistles to get students excited is a must.

The first hard step is getting your foot in the door.

Or maybe kids back then wanted to march drum corps because it was different than their hs band. Now what is the reason to join the corps? It is just band performed during the summer.