The Percussion Discussion

[skeptic]

When are we going to learn you can't compare scores from different shows? I have not seen MBI this year although I saw them last year in Rochester. I think last year them and Hurcs were neck and neck and I'm pretty sure the scores reflected that. I wouldn't be shocked if it were the same this year.

just tryin to show some love for them since they havent been talked about. I think its worth mentioning even if it was a different show.

[DrumminDude]

Absolutely, I don't think anyone counted them out one bit.

[jonasquad]

Judging by your signature, you've been seeing them all year

ok... so maybe I've seen them a little more than a time or two. It's an exciting year! '09 was IMO the best Brass percussion section (and full corps, for that matter) we've ever had, and with our WGI line in it's 3rd year, we have a lot of guys drumming year round. We're getting cleaner every week, and I can't help but be PUMPED!

Thanks for starting this thread, drummindude.

A question to everybody out there: Are there any "can't miss" quad lines this year? It's my instrument of choice, and I do LOVE watching good ones.

[DrumminDude]

ok... so maybe I've seen them a little more than a time or two. It's an exciting year! '09 was IMO the best Brass percussion section (and full corps, for that matter) we've ever had, and with our WGI line in it's 3rd year, we have a lot of guys drumming year round. We're getting cleaner every week, and I can't help but be PUMPED!

Thanks for starting this thread, drummindude.

A question to everybody out there: Are there any "can't miss" quad lines this year? It's my instrument of choice, and I do LOVE watching good ones.

The usual suspects. Although Reading doesn't do it for me as much this year but nothing is going to top last year's tenor line. Hurricanes tenor line... yeesh... they are putting it down this year. I won't say they are consistently the cleanest but I will say they are fun as hell to watch.

Edited August 11, 2010 by DrumminDude

[TastyWaves]

An interesting piece of info, Ed Argenziano was also the judge that put Rhythm X 5th in Music GE on Finals night in Dayton this year. Looking at the recap, Empire's field score was only a tenth about Fusion Core... where as Thurston had Empire 3 tenths above Hurcs for ensemble. Hard to believe there could have been that much of a discrepancy from the field to the box.

Jim Joyce anyone?

I was top center in the arena at Dayton for Finals.

Rhythm X was dropped because they had a lot more rubs than any other line out there.

They also had a couple of "Almost" ensemble tears. Not blatant ones, but noticeable.

Pulse Percussion was completely squeeky tick-free clean and by far the most musically balanced group out there.

X- was a HOT show! but exellence does relate to effect and in this case it was just not their night.

They had a great prelims run but finals didnt happen for them.

I think as far as "Clean", X could have been as low as 6th in my opinion. Mystique, RCC, Redline, and United all were as clean or cleaner.

I think Ed got it right.

[bbwsperc]

An interesting piece of info, Ed Argenziano was also the judge that put Rhythm X 5th in Music GE on Finals night in Dayton this year. Looking at the recap, Empire's field score was only a tenth about Fusion Core... where as Thurston had Empire 3 tenths above Hurcs for ensemble. Hard to believe there could have been that much of a discrepancy from the field to the box.

Jim Joyce anyone?

You are a Way off........You are right that He had them 5th, BUT it was in one SUBCAPTION, which from friends I had there told be was 100% right. They had some rubs and almost tears, so He was spot on....But you miss the fact that OVERALL Ed A. DID have X second overall total in his GE caption, which again was spot on.

Ed A. Has alot of years in the activity as a judge and I for one repect him because he is willing to tell it like it is. If it's good, he will tell ya, if it's not, he will tell you. I would suggest that you have all the facts before you start to draw conclusions

Edited August 12, 2010 by bbwsperc

[EmpireQuad]

I was top center in the arena at Dayton for Finals.

Rhythm X was dropped because they had a lot more rubs than any other line out there.

They also had a couple of "Almost" ensemble tears. Not blatant ones, but noticeable.

Pulse Percussion was completely squeeky tick-free clean and by far the most musically balanced group out there.

X- was a HOT show! but exellence does relate to effect and in this case it was just not their night.

They had a great prelims run but finals didnt happen for them.

I think as far as "Clean", X could have been as low as 6th in my opinion. Mystique, RCC, Redline, and United all were as clean or cleaner.

I think Ed got it right.

I too was in the Dayton arena, and can agree with your analysis. I think the argument with X and Pulse for the most part has been demand vs. excellence. Without a doubt, Pulse was the cleanest line of the night, and I agree X had some tears, but to put them 5th I feel like was a stretch.

In my earlier post, I wasn't accusing Ed of having an agenda, just that he has been at the center of two controversial results in the last few months. To play the other side of it, perhaps this is good thing. I said to my fiancee' before retreat in Dayton that I wouldn't want to be a judge tonight. It has been forever argued that judges make their call based on the uniform the corps is wearing, rather than the product they're putting on the field. Terms like "slotting" and "groupings" are old news these days. Whether or not it exists will be debated as long as this forum is in existence.

If Rhythm X really DID have a bag of a show (which we all know they did), or Statesmen's drumline played with broken sticks Saturday night in Kingston, then good on him for making the correct call, rather than the popular call. Referees in any professional sport have always said it's their goal to never be noticed. In our activity, the judges have the same intent I would assume. It's impossible to remain both fair and popular.

As you can see, I'm a Statesmen Alum, and proud of it. When I learned of Saturday's recap, I was in shock, as most other percussion-savvy people were I would assume. I wasn't at the show Saturday, so I can't speak with any first-hand knowledge of what happened, just that I found it hard to believe. Until the day judges tapes become "public evidence", we will never know what they saw, but rather argue what we think they should see.

[surfbest]

You are too funny, Nick. Because you don't KNOW what Ed saw, you are simply going to argue that he's wrong. Where's the logic in that?

[DrumminDude]

Allow me to play devil's advocate here...

I've seen at least one performance from all of the corps in this discussion from last Saturday, although I was not there. I am not surprised one bit that Cabs may have beaten Empire in field. They are attempting a lot more and I've seen them achieve it. And although it seems preposterous, Bush MAY have been cleaner while attempting more than Empire. The name of the game IS to play clean you know...

Again, I wasn't there, I don't know. I guess I'm just trying to make sense of it. You CAN have a great ensemble show but lose out on your field number because of demand both musically, visually, spatially... you name it.

[zildjian54]

i don't understand why you are all talking about Ed. Just look at the numbers. A lot of people on this thread are talking about how good MBI's line is this year, yet in jamestown Empire beat MBI in ensemble perc. and was .4 away in field percussion. In lewisburg empire was a full 2 points ahead of Bushwacker's in field percussion. yet they get to the Kingston show and Bush is .9 ahead of empire in field percussion, and empire barely beats out FUSION by .1 ?!?!?!?! Give me a break, look at all the numbers again and try to tell me that the scores weren't messed up in kingston.