Recording DCI

[Noname]

If you will be recording outdoors in the lot, I would suggest something with a really good wind screen and probably not a condenser, especially if it will be hand held. Condensers are very sensitive to the slightest breeze or bump. First mics I would reach for in that circumstance is a pair of EV RE50's. I've done a lot of outdoor location recording and this mic always comes through like a champ. It's an industry standard broadcast mic (omni directional) with excellent wind screening, low handling noise, and a very flat natural frequency response. Just set them a few feet apart and you will have a nice stereo image without a lot of fuss. It will also take rather high sound pressure levels so those close up rim shots and power chords won't frack the diaphragm.

Also, the Rode SVM is meant to be hooked up to a camcorder. What machine will you be using to record?

Ah, I wasn't really clear. Sorry about that. But I will be recording it with a Canon Vixia HF S200. I'll have to get a shoe adapter, but so far from what I've seen, the Rode is a great one that people have been recommending to me. I'm definitely going to get a "dead cat" to help out with the wind.

Thank you everyone for the help. I really appreciate it, because I'm probably going to be doing a BUNCH of recording this summer. Maybe you guys will see it somewhere ;). But if anyone has anything more they'd like to suggest, I'm still all ears! Thanks :)

Edited April 5, 2011 by Noname

[scottgordon]

Cardioid refers to the pickup pattern of the mic, meaning it's directional, but has no bearing on wind noise.

I know what cardioid and omni are. Cardioid is far more susceptible to wind noise. Google it!

In fact, your conclusion that condensers are more susceptible to wind noise than dynamics may be because your condensers happen to be cardioid, and your dynamics may happen to be omni.

Edited April 5, 2011 by scottgordon

[MarimbasaurusRex]

I know what cardioid and omni are. Cardioid is far more susceptible to wind noise. Google it!

In fact, your conclusion that condensers are more susceptible to wind noise than dynamics may be because your condensers happen to be cardioid, and your dynamics may happen to be omni.

My conclusion that condensers are more susceptible is from using them. I have both types of condensers and dynamics and will concede that there is a wind difference between cardioid and omni. But, in practical use, the higher sensitivity of the condenser is usually a greater consideration than pickup pattern. Put a dynamic next to a condenser, both cardioid or both omni, no wind screens, blow on them, and the condenser will frack faster and harder for sure. Not just respond, totally frack. It's the difference between white noise and a whack in the head.

[scottgordon]

There is no "best" microphone for recording drumcorps. Every mic has its own pros and cons, and much depends on the particulars of how you're going to record it and what you want to do with the recording later. And of course, your budget, because it is possible to spend thousands of dollars on mics. There are too many mics for one person to know all of them, so do some research, get lots of opinions, and if possible try a few before you buy. Also, a lot depends on what sort of sound you prefer.

My personal favorite mics for recording drumcorps are AKG-414. That's a large-diaphram condensor with several switchable patterns (omni, cardioid figure8, etc). But they can set you back at least $700 a pop. I think Ken Mason uses an array of four Shure SM-81s - that's a nice small-diaphram lightweight condensor mic but it doesn't have an omni mode. BD's 1999 live version of "Legend of the One-Eyed Sailor" from an encore was recorded with a pair of SM-81s -- it's on their Methods of Madness CD, among others, and is one of my favorite drumcorps recordings. I have often used a pair of Rode NT-2's, which work very well either omni or cardioid, and are less expensive than the 414. Frank Dorritie uses a variety of mics, often a combination of AKG-414 and Sennheiser MD-421. Tom Blair uses a Schoeps array, one of the most expensive options. Andrew Lee who did a lot of recording for SCV tested a huge variety of mics, including Earthworks, Sony, binaural setups, some Russian-made Schoeps clones, and many others. For just a pair of mics to carry into a lot, I personally think you're going to get the best sound with a good pair of large diaphram condensers (Ken and I may disagree on that :)) like the 414 or the NT2, with switchable pattern to accomodate varying needs for isolation and/or wind. Many of the best drumcorps recordings ever made were with a simple pair of large diaphram omni or cardioid condensers.

And yes you will want to invest in some good windscreens. Tom Matthews who has done some of BD's recordings went so far as to engineer his own windscreens out of coffee cans and nylon stockings that work incredibly well, but are bulky and, er, ugly looking.

One mic I would AVOID like the plague is the AKG-C1000S, which is often pushed by pro-audio stores as an inexpensive but versatile instrument mic. It's not bad for guitar, but sounds godawful for drumcorps.

For convenience recording in a lot, a single point stereo mic (such as the Rode SVM) is without question the most convenient way to go, and it could be totally adequate for your goals. There are some higher-end single-point stereo mics also worth considering too. Although as you get into it, you may find yourself itching to have more control over the mic placement, imaging, and amount of separation you desire, which requires using multiple mics on separate stands.

Edited April 5, 2011 by scottgordon

[glory]

that one that was used to record the blue knights a few years back. not quite pocket-sized, but super quality

isoMike. Funny you should mention it. I just found my CD of the Blue Knights recorded by isoMike the other day. Good stuff. More here. And here.

HH

[MarimbasaurusRex]

Keep in mind that most condensers, like the AKG414, SM81, etc. will require phantom power. Not the most convenient unless you have portable mic preamps or want to carry a mix board around. Don't discount a GOOD dynamic mic, no phantom power required and it may even sound better, smoother, warmer, less critical, and just as accurate as a condenser, especially at a distance outdoors.

I've not recorded a lot of drum corps. But, I've engineered a few hundred field recordings for Nonesuch and other labels. Typically, we carry a selection of Neumann condensers and EV dynamics, often recording with both to choose the final track later in the studio. About 3 times out of 5, the recordings using dynamics (usually the RE20 or RE15/16) were the ones chosen for release. It gave the mastering guys (Bob Ludwig) better material to work with. One might be surprised to find that quite a few really good field recordings have been made with the EV 635a (about $50 used, omni with no wind screen). If we had the benefit of recording in a studio, we would probably use condensers all the time, but under less controlled conditions, a good pair of dynamics does quite well.

[scottgordon]

Keep in mind that most condensers, like the AKG414, SM81, etc. will require phantom power. Not the most convenient unless you have portable mic preamps or want to carry a mix board around.

That's true, although these days even a lot of the little handheld decks have Phantom power. And if not, you can get a small battery box to provide it.

Don't discount a GOOD dynamic mic,

I didn't -- the Sennheiser I noted Frank Dorritie using is a large-diaphram dynamic. Although it's cardioid only.

[MarimbasaurusRex]

OK, I got real curious why I wasn't hearing a benefit from omni mics in the wind when in theory I should, so I asked a guy who works on mics for a living. His answer was quite interesting and might be useful for anyone who records outdoors. In short, he said that any mic with switchable pickup patterns (card, omni, fig 8 on one mic) is not a true omni. The omni pattern is produced electronically by blending the signals from 2 back to back cardioid diaphragms, so it offers no wind benefit. A true omni is produced acoustically with one diaphragm and this type will better reject wind noise than a cardioid. I also asked what was the best, design-wise, for wind rejection and he said - omni dynamic, but it should be a dynamic with a diaphragm designed to take wind, some are not. He also mentioned that cardioid is often needed outdoors to reduce background noise and that the advantage of directionality can outweigh the wind issue, just have good wind screens.

Edited April 7, 2011 by MarimbasaurusRex

[audiodb]

There is no "best" microphone for recording drumcorps. Every mic has its own pros and cons, and much depends on the particulars of how you're going to record it and what you want to do with the recording later. And of course, your budget, because it is possible to spend thousands of dollars on mics. There are too many mics for one person to know all of them, so do some research, get lots of opinions, and if possible try a few before you buy. Also, a lot depends on what sort of sound you prefer.

Agree, agree, agree, agree and agree.

I think Ken Mason uses an array of four Shure SM-81s

Used to....still do at times....

For just a pair of mics to carry into a lot, I personally think you're going to get the best sound with a good pair of large diaphram condensers (Ken and I may disagree on that :))

I'm not opposed to larger diaphragm mics....in fact, I've been using them for most of my recordings over the past decade. I just find that there are other considerations that are more important than the size of the diaphragm (response pattern is one example). But I could write a book.

Getting to the OP's question....

For convenience recording in a lot, a single point stereo mic (such as the Rode SVM) is without question the most convenient way to go, and it could be totally adequate for your goals.

Makes sense. While a spaced mic setup is of great benefit for field recording (i.e. corps in motion), sections standing still in the lot could be captured well with a single-point setup. Also makes it possible to setup quickly, and relocate quickly to catch other groups.

I would suggest using directional mic(s) to mitigate unwanted sounds from bystanders and other corps in the distance. You'll also want to put a little distance between your mic(s) and the people watching or passing by, either by roping off space or by using a pole or tripod to lift your mic(s) 12-15 feet above ground.

[scottgordon]

In short, he said that any mic with switchable pickup patterns (card, omni, fig 8 on one mic) is not a true omni. The omni pattern is produced electronically by blending the signals from 2 back to back cardioid diaphragms, so it offers no wind benefit.

That is partially true - it offers less wind benefit. I don't know why because I don't really understand the electronics inside of microphones. But I do know that if it's windy, switching to omni does noticeably reduce the wind noise. But you're right that a single-capsule omni offers the best wind resistance. Omnis also afford the best tolerance for proximity effect, meaning you can place them closer to the sound source without odd effects. I've noticed that I can put a spaced omni pair right inside a tight arc, but if I'm using cardioids it's better to be back a bit.