Valve and rotor

[drumno5]

From DCI's article re Ken Norman (2011 Hall of fame inductee):

"Hall of Fame member Dave Richards wrote in a 2000 Drum Corps International Magazine article: “Headed by Ken Norman, top musicians in the activity developed a G [keyed] bugle with the valve tuned in F and a rotary valve tuned in B-flat. In essence, they created an instrument that mirrored the trumpet’s first and second valve and made the bugle a legitimate instrument. It not only brought greater notation opportunities for the instrument, but it brought greater musicians into the activity—arrangers, instructors, performers. The activity had finally gained the recognition as a worthwhile musical activity, and the recognized precision of the past continued to rise.”

It has always been my understanding that engaging the piston on a "G-F" bugle (the type of horn almost universally used in competitive drum corps from the late 60s through the arrival of the multi-key era) lowered the key of the open bugle 1 full step, from G to F, with the rotor (later replaced by the second valve) lowering it an additional half-step. That would put the horn with the piston and rotor simultaneously engaged into the key of E, which would indeed "mirror" the trumpet's first and second valve as far as their pitch relationships to the open instrument. Why does the article state that the rotary valve was "tuned to B-flat" - am I missing something here?

Peace,

Fred O.

[BigW]

Fred,

I'm thinking that's some kind of typo in the article. I've always seen the reference to those bugles as "G-F-F# Bugles" or something similar to that. The rotor is like a second valve on a "normal" brass instrument, trust me.

And yeah, I played on one BITD, LOL. A lot of oddities about them to say the least. Even some advantages in certain aspects.

Now, what that article seems to omit was that there was a slide one could pull back for a semi-tone that was there before the rotor. Saw Danny Fitz play one in I and E years ago and totally blow everyone's mind with what it was capable of in the hands of a talented individual like Danny.

[drumno5]

Fred,

I'm thinking that's some kind of typo in the article. I've always seen the reference to those bugles as "G-F-F# Bugles" or something similar to that. The rotor is like a second valve on a "normal" brass instrument, trust me.

And yeah, I played on one BITD, LOL. A lot of oddities about them to say the least. Even some advantages in certain aspects.

Now, what that article seems to omit was that there was a slide one could pull back for a semi-tone that was there before the rotor. Saw Danny Fitz play one in I and E years ago and totally blow everyone's mind with what it was capable of in the hands of a talented individual like Danny.

Yeah, the open horn was in G (), the rotor lowered it a half-step (there's your F#) and the piston valve lowered it a full step (and there's your F natural). If you pressed both valve and rotor together you were 1-1/2 steps lower than the open horn (E). As the article says, that's the same pitch relationships found on the first two valves of a trumpet.

Yes, I do remember the old ring slide (so called because of the ring attached to the bottom of the slide for the purpose of pushing it back and forth), or "slip-slide," as some old timers called it. Bugles of that vintage were probably "G-D" horns (the piston lowered the horn a fourth, from G down to D - yikes)! I can recall those old Lefty Mayer style arrangements: bah, boo-wah (an-4-an-1), boo-wah boo-wah... those were the days!

regards,

Fred O.

Edited April 27, 2011 by drumno5

[marzsit]

later production olds ultratone p/r sopranos and mellophones almost always had the slip-slide, it was very useful for solos :) these were g-f-f# horns, not g-d.

Edited December 20, 2011 by marzsit

[HornsUp]

later production olds ultratone p/r sopranos and mellophones almost always had the slip-slide, it was very useful for solos :) these were g-f-f# horns, not g-d.

The BU-02 soprano and BU-06 mellophone featured the infamous spring-loaded TUNING ADJUSTER mechanism. It was not a chromatic slide. It was intended to be a compensator for the A flat which had to be played as a 7th partial.

It was a leaky mechanical nightmare. (I have yet to find a good practical compensator mechanism on a marching horn.)

Here's how it was supposed to work: You adjusted the pitch compensation for the A flat with the ring labeled TUNING. Then you tuned the entire instrument with the ring marked ADJUSTER. Got that?

The original BU-01 and BU-05 models played better. So did the hardware-bare Duratones.

[The Oz]

The BU-02 soprano and BU-06 mellophone featured the infamous spring-loaded TUNING ADJUSTER mechanism. It was not a chromatic slide. It was intended to be a compensator for the A flat which had to be played as a 7th partial.

It was a leaky mechanical nightmare. (I have yet to find a good practical compensator mechanism on a marching horn.)

Here's how it was supposed to work: You adjusted the pitch compensation for the A flat with the ring labeled TUNING. Then you tuned the entire instrument with the ring marked ADJUSTER. Got that?

The original BU-01 and BU-05 models played better. So did the hardware-bare Duratones.

Because I was confused, I Googled "BU-02 soprano" to see what this thing looked like. Here's what came back:

GR3500P: Blue Moon BU-02P Soprano Uke

Pink, Fully Playable instrument for Beginners. Complete with matching cover. Made in China

Price: $47.95 US Dollars

So what is the TUNING ring and what is the ADJUSTER?

[HornsUp]

So what is the TUNING ring and what is the ADJUSTER?

This model: just tune it to My Dog Has Fleas

[marzsit]

The BU-02 soprano and BU-06 mellophone featured the infamous spring-loaded TUNING ADJUSTER mechanism. It was not a chromatic slide. It was intended to be a compensator for the A flat which had to be played as a 7th partial.

It was a leaky mechanical nightmare. (I have yet to find a good practical compensator mechanism on a marching horn.)

Here's how it was supposed to work: You adjusted the pitch compensation for the A flat with the ring labeled TUNING. Then you tuned the entire instrument with the ring marked ADJUSTER. Got that?

The original BU-01 and BU-05 models played better. So did the hardware-bare Duratones.

i agree it's leaky, the slide is as loose as the slide on a trombone. the slide on my mellophone is chromed and polished and very sloppy...

so, i'm assuming the ring brazed to the bottom of the slide is the tuning ring, and the knurled nut is the adjuster? or is it the other way around? i've never seen an ultratone user manual....

[HornsUp]

i agree it's leaky, the slide is as loose as the slide on a trombone. the slide on my mellophone is chromed and polished and very sloppy...

I got your PM, I have a few of the parts in my very-last-of-the-Olds-parts stash.

But what I always did with the 02s and 06s was use a slide expander tool (Your repair shop should have one of these) to tighten up the fit of the inner slides.

[JonW]

Always did love them p/r sops... my right hand had been badly damaged making the 3-valve trumpet a bit challenging. My middle finger knuckle kept locking in an up-right position, infuriating the band director (I'd miss notes and unintentionally flip-off the audience).

That sop was a dream - no more fingers locking!