BlueRevo Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 Should size of corps be a consideration among judges? It's not on the sheets yet it seems when smaller corps put on an equally well executed good show as the ones with 130 members, they can't pull the scores. Are they inadvertently being discriminated against due to size? Should DCI revisit the number requirement for Open Class? Will having the SAME corps winning each year due to the fact that they carry the same numbers as a World sized corps hurt the smaller programs? Just questions that have come to mind after seeing a couple shows where these issues seemed to be a factor? Discuss. Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trombean Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 This is something that sort of irks me too. It seems like Open Class has become a contest to see who has the biggest corps and it's kinda unfair to the smaller ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueRevo Posted June 27, 2011 Author Share Posted June 27, 2011 I'm all about quality over quantity and have marched/staffed smaller programs that have taken out the "big boys" (band & corps). I understand the smaller corps flaws are more exposed since there's less to watch, but the fluctuation in scores this week, especially in Cali, are making me wonder. It's almost as if the smaller corps have to be almost #### clean to be able to compete. Larger programs tend to be able to hide the dirt. Makes sense, but then this takes me back to the numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drumdad Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 My opinion is only that of a veteran DCI parent. Your point about misdirection (Do bigger corps get away with more because there's more to pull the eye?) is valid, but you also have to consider that a smaller corps is more limited in what it can do, visually. Twenty-five horns can't make all the same designs and effects that 75 horns can. So, visually, I think the scores of the smaller corps suffer. That said, I can't help but laugh when I hear someone in the stands say, of a large corps, "Wow, they're loud". Of course they're loud! Large corps are supposed to be loud! I am far more impressed by the small to medium size corps that pushes an energetic sound. My son plays for one of the smaller corps. The corps is always in the hunt and finishes soundly within the top ten. But, I believe that until that corps can grow it's numbers it will always only be a quality, small corps looking for a place in the pecking order. I believe that the replacement of Divisions II & III, with the singular Open Class classification, has greatly reduced the likelihood that a smaller corps will ever be champion. Just my thoughts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mahler444 Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 Maybe there needs to be a couple different groups within open class based on the numbers. In my opinion, it would make more sense to have groups of similar size compared. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Denzer Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 Maybe there needs to be a couple different groups within open class based on the numbers. In my opinion, it would make more sense to have groups of similar size compared. The problem is that with only 18 open class corps left competing at DCI you cannot justify different divisions based on size. The only way to really make it work would be to go back to the model that was used in the past where division III was corps under 60 members, Division II was corps with 60 - 90 members and Division I was corps with over 90 members. Considering that a few World Class corps are marching under 90 members this year it would definitely change the competitive landscape. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phirefenix Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 I find it hard to agree with the size issue. I was never in the largest corps out there. Yet summer after summer we were top 3 with a solid hunt for gold, and intimidated a lot of our competitors big and small. We took gold in 07, and were the smallest corps in the top 4. Winning in DCI isn't easy, nor should it be. It's not impossible for the small corps to do well against the 'big boys'. Larger corps have drawbacks that work against them. More feet to clean, horns to correct, and drums to muddy the sound. They take a little longer usually to work those issues out depending on show material, and staff. There are just too many variables even now to putting out a solid product that the judges, and audience will react to. A big corps isn't going to show up at finals, and walk away a champion. Looking at gold medalists back to 2003 when division 2 corps started getting really big Esperanza won over a larger Patriots, ECJ won in 2005 over a larger Spartans, 2006 Academy shook everyone's world, 2007 Spartans win over a larger Surf, and Teal Sound, 2008 SCVC wins over a bigger BDB. 2009 BDB takes it, and in 2010 repeats due to a very successful group of staff, and kids. There just isn't a history of biggest=gold without fail. Thus I don't see it being an issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NashvillePat Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 (edited) I find it hard to agree with the size issue. I was never in the largest corps out there. Yet summer after summer we were top 3 with a solid hunt for gold, and intimidated a lot of our competitors big and small. We took gold in 07, and were the smallest corps in the top 4. Winning in DCI isn't easy, nor should it be. It's not impossible for the small corps to do well against the 'big boys'. Larger corps have drawbacks that work against them. More feet to clean, horns to correct, and drums to muddy the sound. They take a little longer usually to work those issues out depending on show material, and staff. There are just too many variables even now to putting out a solid product that the judges, and audience will react to. A big corps isn't going to show up at finals, and walk away a champion. Looking at gold medalists back to 2003 when division 2 corps started getting really big Esperanza won over a larger Patriots, ECJ won in 2005 over a larger Spartans, 2006 Academy shook everyone's world, 2007 Spartans win over a larger Surf, and Teal Sound, 2008 SCVC wins over a bigger BDB. 2009 BDB takes it, and in 2010 repeats due to a very successful group of staff, and kids. There just isn't a history of biggest=gold without fail. Thus I don't see it being an issue. go back to 1994... the Americanos won Div III with a grand total of 33 kids on the field and Pioneer won with something like 70 in Div II that same year. Edited June 28, 2011 by NashvillePat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueRevo Posted June 28, 2011 Author Share Posted June 28, 2011 Great discussion!!!! Another example, sorry to seem self serving even though I'm not their staff anymore...Revolution 2002. Unfortunately, there have been examples when that has not happened. I hope the judges are being reminded of the size factor in their pre-season training. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calistar Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 (edited) Great discussion!!!! Another example, sorry to seem self serving even though I'm not their staff anymore...Revolution 2002. Unfortunately, there have been examples when that has not happened. I hope the judges are being reminded of the size factor in their pre-season training. Perhaps you can give an example of a Small Corps that you feel is better than BDB or SCVC? I don't think you are talking about Revo, because I saw them twice this weekend and they are nowhere near the quality of the two corps. Size or no size. Don't get me wrong, because I love the effort and dedication that Revo demonstrates year in and year out, but they just don't measure up and it has nothing to do with size. Should size of corps be a consideration among judges? It's not on the sheets yet it seems when smaller corps put on an equally well executed good show as the ones with 130 members, they can't pull the scores. So who do you think is being shortchanged this season? Who is being underscored? Cali. Edited June 28, 2011 by Calistar 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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