Jeff Ream Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Take a painter, a sculptor, a singer, a musician who has never heard of WGI, and a lay-person to Guard Finals as well as to Drum Line Finals; then ask them if Drum Line influences Guard more or if Guard influences Drum Line more; therein you will find the real answer. except Stu in indoor, drumlines were experimenting with this stuff way back, even before some guards were. what you may see, but what is actually true can be different. the problem is, we're trying to educate you in this thread, and you just keep kicking that dead horse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 except Stu in indoor, drumlines were experimenting with this stuff way back, even before some guards were. what you may see, but what is actually true can be different. the problem is, we're trying to educate you in this thread, and you just keep kicking that dead horse Ok, educate me by answering this question: Who implemented dancing first, guard or drum line? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Ok, educate me by answering this question: Who implemented dancing first, guard or drum line? yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 yes. Funny!!! But this is not a chicken/egg question because you stated that you were actually trying to educate me on the history of Guard vs. Drum Line. So, my first question still stands: Who began the dancing first to gain more GE, Guard or Drummers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Funny!!! But this is not a chicken/egg question because you stated that you were actually trying to educate me on the history of Guard vs. Drum Line. So, my first question still stands: Who began the dancing first to gain more GE, Guard or Drummers? the answer is yes. In the areas I am in and have watched, I saw drumline doing body stuff starting around the same time as guards did. To be honest, all of the body/dance stuff you see outside now has been heavily influenced by indoor, both percussion and guard. I remember in KIDA back in the 80's seeing North Penn "walking on a thin line" and Cumberland Valley's jungle show, a full fledged production unlike anything done back then, and even more than some shows now. I remember CedarCest HS perucssion doing body stuff beyond the good old fashioned "east coast left foot step out and bob". At the same time, the guards from those schools were doing straight ahead stuff,maybe some body, but the percussion units were far more adventurous. Caused a lot of problems because some of the judging community wasn't sure how to handle it....simultaneous responsibility wasn't a big topic back in the mid 80s yet. so, to answer your question...yes. they both started around the same time,and in these parts, the drummers were more adventurous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drumguy50 Posted November 18, 2011 Author Share Posted November 18, 2011 Mark isn't at every regional, and we've seen units promoted from prelims to finals, so I doubt he makes EVERy call. and I'd trust Mark with my life. declining involvement? Really? considering they are maxed out on units they can take at Dayton, how is it declining? regionals? Some grow some drop, it ebbs and flows. I know how big the closest regional to me was 10 years ago, now they are bringing in 2 panels because the day is so long. Plus....it aint cheap. look at school budget issues. it's not cheap to run an independent unit. In this economy, you expect numbers to grow by leaps and bounds? I dont, and I'm sure theydon't either. You want change at the top? Who then? Dennis back? God help us all. Thank you Mrs Thurston! I did not know Dennis (I assume Delusia) ever ran the the WGI percussion. I am very concerned looking at the good people such as Hardimon and Mascaro walking away from the activity with WGI. And yes I am referring to the regional sign ups and I also believe last season at Dayton had less groups than previous. It is clear you will support the people running things now with out question (I suspect you may have been a Crossmen) I hope people look at things logically and openly before what started out as a great new activity fades away because of guidance issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 (edited) Thank you Mrs Thurston! hardly. She's far more attractive. Oh, and female. I did not know Dennis (I assume Delusia) ever ran the the WGI percussion. I am very concerned looking at the good people such as Hardimon and Mascaro walking away from the activity with WGI. And yes I am referring to the regional sign ups and I also believe last season at Dayton had less groups than previous. Ralph walked away, yes. Do you know the reasons? You seem to imply he was pushed out. As for regionals, some were up...some were down. Dayton was pretty much about the same. Probably more scholastic and few indy groups. That happens when the economy gets tight. Dayton as it's set up now really doesnt have room for more units without incurring the cost of another facility and/or another day. It is clear you will support the people running things now with out question (I suspect you may have been a Crossmen) I hope people look at things logically and openly before what started out as a great new activity fades away because of guidance issues. I do support the current admin team, tho I do ask questions if something doesn't make sense. Guess what i found out....if you ask nicely, they'll answer those questions! In fact I was lucky enough to attend a clinic today where one of the better visual judges spoke, and really just summed it up so well in terms of designing for the A class in terms of visual effect and the ensemble visual sheet. See.....the problem isn't always the system. Sometimes the problem is people that can't look at their program objectively. Also, a great point raised today, is sometimes the paradigm shifts....and basic skills become a little more advanced as we have seen the last few years. More units master similar things that are just a notch above what they all mastered last year. Oh and I never marched Crossmen. Wish I had. Did have the pleasure of learning under Mark some at Westshore when he wrote, and in the now 22 years since we first met, Mark's always been extremely gracious in answering questions and giving advice. As someone who has helped take a local circuit and finally get it aligned with WGI's tolerances and philosophy, Mark has been an incredible resource to myself and other administrators. Even took a ton of time to sit down and go over stuff with myself and a friend in Dayton during the 2010 Percussion weekend. Was also kind enough to check out our circuits finals last year, on his dime, and let us know if we were lining up right. Quite honestly.....on a national and local level, I think the percussion world has their act far more together than the other indoor idioms. Edited November 20, 2011 by Jeff Ream Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkThurston Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 Drumguy50, Looks like a great time for you and I to discuss the indoor activity. Just about every one of your points is flawed. Contact me via email with your phone number and I'll call you. I look forward to talking with you. MT 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old skool drmmr Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 ...And boom goes the dynamite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 I think it's greatMark is willing to talk to someone about this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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