What's the purpose of DCI

[Pete Freedman]

This has probably been hashed and rehashed, but I'm just bored.

What's the purpose of what DCI has become?

Is it for the performers?

Yes

Is it for the fans?

No

Is it for the money?

What money? DCI is money obsessed, but only because it has none.

Why do we have so many contests when there will be VERY VERY VERY little movement in rankings from now until finals?

To thrill audiences in different parts of the country. The tour moves around. And the corps make money from shows. And the members are thrilled to do them; they more shows you do, they better their summer will be remembered, up to a point.

I'm just curious. I've got a REALLY REALLY long winded opinion on this, but I want to hear other's opinions first.

You ask good questions. My view is that it really is all about the marching members. It's run and judged by educators. Even the work of the show designers are largely ignored by the judges, who are essentially grading kids. The show is mostly relevant to the extent that it allows the kids to express their skills.

[BRASSO]

Why do we have so many contests when there will be VERY VERY VERY little movement in rankings from now until finals?

.

Thats because there are no transfer rules in place like so many other youth competitive sports have in place, and have for many years. I understand that hardly nobody is in favor of instituting at least some level of transfer between Corps rules. I get that. I'm not going to fight a losing battle on this when there appear little to no support for it. That said, don't tell me then that we wish that there was more excitement and more movement at the top. Its not going to happen because its clear to me that we don't want to consider things that could provide what we claim we crave. SO... its the Cadevaliers winning 85% of the time the last 35 years and the best we can hope for is a non Cadevaliers to win DCI once every decade or so, before placements return to " normal " the following year. Maybe this year Crown gets it. But one look at the placements in DCI and its pretty obvious that of the 20 some odd Corps, only 2-3 of them in any given year move up or down more than 3 placement spots from year to year. So it is what it is, and without " changes " in the transfer rules, it'll be like this for the next 35 years now too, imo.

.

Edited July 14, 2013 by BRASSO

[soccerguy315]

we have so many shows so fans can watch...

right?

I guess we could lock everyone away except for Saturdays? Actually, that's basically what the G7 wanted to do, lock themselves away from the audiences except for the weekends.

[Pete Freedman]

I guess the entity. But to be honest, what about the activity. Because for each person it's very different. Take the center snare for example, she started at Bluecoats and then went to Blue Devils. Let's be honest, I know she's from California, but if the Bluecoats were winning championships and had Scott Johnson would she have left?

Yeah, people move around. I was only in parade corps, and loyalty was more important then. Today the question is, what is in her best interest as a student who wants to learn? That's a better perspective, although there is still room for loyalty.

[Pete Freedman]

Thats because there are no transfer rules in place like so many other youth competitive sports have in place, and have for many years. I understand that hardly nobody is in favor of instituting at least some level of transfer between Corps rules. I get that. I'm not going to fight a losing battle on this when there appear little to no support for it. That said, don't tell me then that we wish that there was more excitement and more movement at the top. Its not going to happen because its clear to me that we don't want to consider things that could provide what we claim we crave. SO... its the Cadevaliers 85% of the time the last 35 years and the best we can hope for is a non Cadevaliers to win DCI once every decade or so, before placements return to " normal " the following year. Maybe this year Crown gets it. But one look at the placements in DCI and its pretty obvious that of the 20 some odd Corps, only 1-3 of them in any given year move up or down more than 3 placement spots from year to year. So it is what it is, and without " changes " in the transfer rules, it'll be like this for the next 35 years now too, imo.

.

That's an interesting idea. I was only thinking of loyalty, but you're right that if people had to stay in the corps they start out in, that would level the playing field quite a bit.

[NSUMusician]

Yeah, people move around. I was only in parade corps, and loyalty was more important then. Today the question is, what is in her best interest as a student who wants to learn? That's a better perspective, although there is still room for loyalty.

While I shouldn't have singled her out I think you get the point.

[Pete Freedman]

I've been to plenty of shows and I watch everything I can on the Fan Network. I think the experience is different for each person and that was the root of my post.

I think you're missing the point on the amount of shows. If placement doesn't change, why do we have rankings at the shows? If it's already slotted or whatever, then why can't we take the competitive aspect out and just enjoy drum corp. If it's about competition, then why isn't there any? That's my point.

I'm also a fan of Formula 1 racing, and during the 90s and 00s there were many races where you knew who was going to start at the front, there would be few passes for position during the race (often none), and they pretty much finished in the same order they started (except for mechanical problems).

Here's the kicker; during this time Formula 1 became one of the most popular sports in the world, with dramatically increasing viewership. In the last few years various rules are in place to create lots of passing, and viewership is declining.

Why? My view is, it's not the change in position that excites you, it's the tension about the possibility of it. The hope that your corps/driver can catch up.

[Pete Freedman]

For those who don't know; here's the Blue Knights graphic representation of the current standings. (It's hard to compare scores from different shows, and it can be hard to distinguish different shows on the same night.)

There's more movement than you'd think. BD is now only .5 behind Crown, and that's probably from the same show (?).

http://www.bknights....s/standings.asp

(Wait for it to generate the graph)

[BRASSO]

Why? My view is, it's not the change in position that excites you, it's the tension about the possibility of it. The hope that your corps/driver can catch up.

But after 35 years, the " hope " that there is more real competition each year sort of slides into into a comfortable acceptance of " well, thats just the way things are, and the Cadevaliers just work harder and smarter than all the others ". A resignation seeps in, and then it becomes a ho hum expectantcy on the part of just about everybody. Thats why at local shows now, more than half the audience is running to exits and their cars after the last Corps performance as they already pretty much know the placements already at the local show and most of them knew it the minute they entered the stadium gate that nite.

Edited July 14, 2013 by BRASSO

[garfield]

I've been to plenty of shows and I watch everything I can on the Fan Network. I think the experience is different for each person and that was the root of my post.

I think you're missing the point on the amount of shows. If placement doesn't change, why do we have rankings at the shows? If it's already slotted or whatever, then why can't we take the competitive aspect out and just enjoy drum corp. If it's about competition, then why isn't there any? That's my point.

I get where you're coming from, but it's still about the kids and, if it ever becomes NOT about the kids, the activity is really sunk.

The point of so many shows is because they are performance and money-making opportunities for the corps. If you listened to the DCI podcast, Crown says as much. Potter asked "why not just take the time off and practice instead of committing so many days to travel west?". Money-making opportunities at shows was his answer.

Which is what really torques me off with DCI's refusal to promote the local show circuit. If you went by their marketing you'd never even know that local shows make up 45% of the tour, but the corps know the value in money and performance practice for their kids.

The point of drum corps is to make adults out of those kids who can't dribble, pass, or kick a ball into a net.