Stu Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 Maybe someday we'll appreciate them and give them the accolades they deserve. They shouldn't have to do what Carolina Crown has done - grow from a Div I corps to rule the world - in order to have us pay attention to what they accomplish. Hey everyone... let's put this supposed desired appreciation of lower divisions to the test. Most all sports fans can name the NCAA Division I Basketball Champion, or the NASCAR Sprint Cup Champion, or the MLB World Series Champion, or the NFL Superbowl Champion. However, without doing any research, what percentage of the sports fan population do you think could correctly answer (or even care about) the following questions: What team was the 2011 NCAA 'Div III' Basketball Champion? Who was the 2011 NASCAR 'Whelen All-American' Champion? What team was the 2011 MLB 'AA' Baseball Champion? So let's please just face the reality that it is what it is; that very few fans in any activity care about the minors, and that most lower division players desire to play in the majors, and just accept those as fact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rayfallon Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 Hey everyone... let's put this supposed desired appreciation of lower divisions to the test. Most all sports fans can name the NCAA Division I Basketball Champion, or the NASCAR Sprint Cup Champion, or the MLB World Series Champion, or the NFL Superbowl Champion. However, without doing any research, what percentage of the sports fan population do you think could correctly answer (or even care about) the following questions: What team was the 2011 NCAA 'Div III' Basketball Champion? Who was the 2011 NASCAR 'Whelen All-American' Champion? What team was the 2011 MLB 'AA' Baseball Champion? So let's please just face the reality that it is what it is; that very few fans in any activity care about the minors, and that most lower division players desire to play in the majors, and just accept those as fact. While very cynical for a young person, your examples are useful... Ever go to a minor league baseball game? If you haven't, try it - I guarantee that you'll enjoy it. The baseball is more fun to watch than the majors - the pitching is not great but the hitting is off the charts. The newer stadiums are great, but some of the old ones like down in Durham NC are unbelievable. We are slaves to the things that are shoved in our faces. Honest to god, I was blown away by Mandarin last night. I didn't think they won, or even beat anyone, but I had no choice but to jump up and applaud like a madman for their energy, commitment, honesty. Too many people don't care about anything except the big time, but that doesn't make the minors worth less. It only lessens the quality of our experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike78Mello Posted July 20, 2013 Author Share Posted July 20, 2013 (edited) ...what happens when your 80 person corps progresses, and excels to the point that the new members that are drawn to your well-run organization far outnumber the age-outs and/or move-ons? Do you expand from a solid 80 to a shakier 96 because it's an even busload? Do you increase the number of techs to keep up with growth? Do you buy instruments like twice the number of $8,000 tubas or marimbas? And if you decide to hold the line, whom do you turn away? Do you audition fresh each fall and keep the "best" 80? if so do you turn away any of your original 80 who might not be as strong as the new blood?... These are really good points. In my idealistic world, I would rather see more corps, particularly corps serving an “under-served” market. The “under-served” market being young people in the age-range of 14-18. In my view, the World Class corps are doing an outstanding job of serving young people between 17-22 years old--with what could be termed a pre-professional experience. However, there are vastly more young people in need of summer activities, who I believe could benefit from the experience of drum corps. Splitting recruiting markets, has its considerations. For example, prior to 2012 season I arranged for what has become the Columbians drum corps to receive older surplus brass and battery from the Cascades. There are those that would say I hurt the Cascades in the process. Even though I am no longer involved, I am still pleased to see a new drum corps emerge this year. Corps that can grow to a high level of competition in World Class must still decide on their limits. The real competition is in the financial arms race, which then dictates approximate placement on the field. The budgets do correlate closely to placements. So, whether it is World or Open, every corps must make value decisions of where they wish to compete. Personally, even if I could annually come up with the $2 million that it would take to compete for top honors, I would expect a greater return of value to the community from Open Class corps. With targeting a specific size corps, there is the reality of turning potential members away. That reality may already be common for even smaller corps in their percussion section. We tend to struggle recruiting brass, but have deep auditions for percussion. So, even though it pains me to say, I think regardless of the corps size, potential member may be turned away, particularly percussionist. There is an additional risk for any corps in failing to fulfill expectations. If each year the members expect their corps to get bigger, better, and tour more, but that does not happen, then the potential loss of members can be catastrophic. Over 3+ decades, I have seen this broad member loss occur several times in the corps in which I am an alumnus. Ultimately, I believe that being honest with members and staff about the corps' plans, and at the same time providing a great member experience is the foundation of a sustainable drum corps at any level. However, in my own efforts over several years, I can’t say I have yet to achieved what I believe, with the corps I supported. Mike Edited July 20, 2013 by Mike78Mello Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 Hey everyone... let's put this supposed desired appreciation of lower divisions to the test. Most all sports fans can name the NCAA Division I Basketball Champion, or the NASCAR Sprint Cup Champion, or the MLB World Series Champion, or the NFL Superbowl Champion. However, without doing any research, what percentage of the sports fan population do you think could correctly answer (or even care about) the following questions: What team was the 2011 NCAA 'Div III' Basketball Champion? Who was the 2011 NASCAR 'Whelen All-American' Champion? What team was the 2011 MLB 'AA' Baseball Champion? So let's please just face the reality that it is what it is; that very few fans in any activity care about the minors, and that most lower division players desire to play in the majors, and just accept those as fact. Which MLB 'AA" Champ as there are a few leagues? Or does that mean the minors (sports/DC) deserve very little respect or consideration since you didn't know that? Live near MLB and NHL farm clubs and true the major league fans might have problems recalling champs off the top of their heads. But the major leagues understand the purpose for the minors, respect them and make #### sure that the minor groups are healthy and run correctly. DCI has gotten better with this but IMO DCI could take lessons from MLB, NHL on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 Ever go to a minor league baseball game? Yes I have; but that was not the point. What I am stating is that even the most avid MLB baseball fan would be hard pressed to name many of the minor league team names let alone the champions (example: more people know about the Toledo Mudhens due to the TV show MASH than from being interested in minor league baseball); and thus the point is that it is what it is, and asking avid WC drum corps fans to be more supportive of the OC corps is akin to asking NCAA Div I basketball fans to be more supportive of Div III games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 Which MLB 'AA" Champ as there are a few leagues? Or does that mean the minors (sports/DC) deserve very little respect or consideration since you didn't know that? Live near MLB and NHL farm clubs and true the major league fans might have problems recalling champs off the top of their heads. But the major leagues understand the purpose for the minors, respect them and make #### sure that the minor groups are healthy and run correctly. DCI has gotten better with this but IMO DCI could take lessons from MLB, NHL on this. Ok; MLB and MLB fans see the value in the minors, and DCI should take on the model of the MLB. Well BDB/BDC, SCVC, and the Colt Cadets are the closest OC corps to the MLB model. For DCI and DCI fans to better support the lower division corps, it appears that you are advocating that DCI should follow suit with all OC corps actually being farm teams of WC corps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike78Mello Posted July 20, 2013 Author Share Posted July 20, 2013 (edited) I pose that the comparison to professional minor league sports is somewhat appropriate, yet largely unrelated. Minor league sports teams exists for the purpose of providing a professional training ground for talent before entering the major league. Drum corps are non-profit entities for young people whose purpose hopefully pertains to providing a quality life-leaning experience to youth. I do agree that many members in Open Class corps do strive to one day march with a top World Class corps. I see nothing wrong with that. Particularly for those that intend to pursue careers in arts and arts education. For those students, it may make sense to get one’s “master’s degree” in drum corps, so to speak. However, not everyone will continue on to march in a World Class corps. Finances and summer commitments are two major limitations as to who can march with a World Class corps, particularly as life becomes more serious in the college years. Therefore, I believe that there is room for corps with less rigorous schedules and less financial requirements. We should also look at the different nature of high school versus college. At a high-school age, music and guard is part of a growing experience, not necessarily a vocational experience. Only a fraction of high school students that enjoy participating in music and guard will continue to pursue the arts in college. I feel that drum corps could take a much larger role in shaping the lives of young people, even if the focus is not passing students onto the major league. Mike Edited July 20, 2013 by Mike78Mello Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted July 21, 2013 Share Posted July 21, 2013 Ok; MLB and MLB fans see the value in the minors, and DCI should take on the model of the MLB. Well BDB/BDC, SCVC, and the Colt Cadets are the closest OC corps to the MLB model. For DCI and DCI fans to better support the lower division corps, it appears that you are advocating that DCI should follow suit with all OC corps actually being farm teams of WC corps. what part of "understand the purpose for the minors, respect them and make #### sure that the minor groups are healthy and run correctly" don't you get as nothing said about farm corps? I'm saying that I don't think DCI appreciates/understands how OC helps the activity and if the OC suffers it would eventually hurt the WC world. MLB/NHL does understand the relationship and how important it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted July 21, 2013 Share Posted July 21, 2013 what part of "understand the purpose for the minors, respect them and make #### sure that the minor groups are healthy and run correctly" don't you get as nothing said about farm corps? I'm saying that I don't think DCI appreciates/understands how OC helps the activity and if the OC suffers it would eventually hurt the WC world. MLB/NHL does understand the relationship and how important it is. And what part of 'minor league' do you not understand? By definition a minor league system exists for one purpose and one purpose only; to feed and support the major league teams. In fact, BDB/BDC, SCVC, Colt Cadets are prime examples of what minor league teams are designed to accomplish. And by the way, most current WC corps actually do not 'need' the OC corps. While the Detroit Tigers 'need' the Toledo Mud Hens, the Boston Crusaders do not 'need' the 7th Regiment just like the University of Illinois does not 'need' Rockford College. While I love and support the OC, an overwhelming percentage of marching members with WC corps never marched in an OC corps; and I like it that way thank you very much; because it allows each corps to be independent and move or stay within their respective divisions as they see fit. To me the DCI system should not be major/minor (which indicates a feeder system for the major teams) but somewhat parallel the NCAA Divisions I, II, and III, with an allowance for corps to move in and out of divisions, combined with the business structure of the PGA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted July 21, 2013 Share Posted July 21, 2013 (edited) And what part of 'minor league' do you not understand? By definition a minor league system exists for one purpose and one purpose only; to feed and support the major league teams. In fact, BDB/BDC, SCVC, Colt Cadets are prime examples of what minor league teams are designed to accomplish. And by the way, most current WC corps actually do not 'need' the OC corps. While the Detroit Tigers 'need' the Toledo Mud Hens, the Boston Crusaders do not 'need' the 7th Regiment just like the University of Illinois does not 'need' Rockford College. While I love and support the OC, an overwhelming percentage of marching members with WC corps never marched in an OC corps; and I like it that way thank you very much; because it allows each corps to be independent and move or stay within their respective divisions as they see fit. To me the DCI system should not be major/minor (which indicates a feeder system for the major teams) but somewhat parallel the NCAA Divisions I, II, and III, with an allowance for corps to move in and out of divisions, combined with the business structure of the PGA. Except I never called OC 'minor', 'minor league" or 'farm corps' so don't see how my understanding of "minor league" come into play. As for WC needing OC, I'm a firm believe that all "flavors" of Drum Corps (WC, OC, All Age, Alumni-type, Mini, etc) need to be healthy for the activity to survive. In this case you're talking individual corps and I'm talking about the entire group. Somehow you took my post about DCI should be more like PARTS of the major/minor league relations to be that DCI should be like ALL of it. Never said OC should be farm corps for WC. Edited July 21, 2013 by JimF-LowBari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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