Suncoast '84

[rayfallon]

The members of the '84 Suncoast Sound each wore memorial bracelets containing the names of U.S. armed forces personnel who died in action.

I know that several of those members were still wearing the bracelets some 25 years later (and perhaps they are still wearing them now, 30 later.)

The impact it had on the marching members may very well be the strongest effect that show had.

My daughter marched in last year's Crossmen "Protest" show - another problematic show. By the end of the year I think that what you describe took place for them too.

And to me, if you can take 150 young people and make them feel something about one of the pivotal decades in American History, and appreciate the experience of those protesters singing "We Shall Overcome" together in one voice, you haven't wasted your time, irrespective of what place you finish.

I think that a lot of that success was due to Chuck Naffier's inspired scoring of that music - it reached some souls.

You rarely see that in ANY activity.

[rayfallon]

Personally, the only part of the show I really cared for while viewing was the Requiem. I felt that it really wasn't an extremely respectful treatment of the event (I have an uncle who served in Viet Nam, and according to my dad, it changed him forever) and when I watched it I was really let down that they did that, as opposed to making the whole show having the respectful feel that the Requiem had.

On a side note, thank you for the wonderful response. It is probably the best reaction to a topic of this nature I have seen on DCP, and it is rather thorough, which is a pleasant surprise especially when I hang around in the World Class forums (who doesnt love the knee jerk reaction to topics there?).

My personal experience is that we were ALL changed forever, as a nation. In many ways it wasn't our finest hour, and I have to throw in that the treatment we got when we got home was disgraceful. Picture yourself being spit on, or called a "baby killer". It happened, and not in an isolated one-off way, however history records it now.

But like everything else, you pick up and go on. Hope your Uncle found peace and enjoyment. I found great release and integration in drum corps, starting with Sunrisers in 1975 and well... you can read the corps on my profile list.

I got fired a lot... :) and rehired; and refired; and rehired... you get it...

[rayfallon]

Ah alright. So you marched with Bob Barfield as well.

What a friggin' talented bunch of kids they had down there!

A time we'll never forget as an activity!

[MelloMatt]

Absolutely. Great guy.

I had the privilege to be taught by him for a year before he went out to TX. but now he's apparently in South Carolina

[MelloMatt]

My personal experience is that we were ALL changed forever, as a nation. In many ways it wasn't our finest hour, and I have to throw in that the treatment we got when we got home was disgraceful. Picture yourself being spit on, or called a "baby killer". It happened, and not in an isolated one-off way, however history records it now.

But like everything else, you pick up and go on. Hope your Uncle found peace and enjoyment. I found great release and integration in drum corps, starting with Sunrisers in 1975 and well... you can read the corps on my profile list.

I got fired a lot... :) and rehired; and refired; and rehired... you get it...

I've heard a lot about how veterans were treated and it honestly makes me feel ashamed of my fellow countrymen. Id like to say thank you for your service.

[91FSU08]

As a young viewer who wasn't even alive when this show was performed, I would like to know how controversial this show was. I was watching it last night on Fannetwork and it seems to delve into (what now is considered) VK territory (the Satisfaction bit) and at points it seems rather irreverent. I would like to know from anyone who was involved at this time how much resistance they got from the crowds they faced.

I was on the road that year working with the Bridgemen's brass line. I get in trouble with '84 Suncoast as I'm the only one in the world that didn't like the show. It's complicated.

Crowds liked it. Judges liked it early in the year, quite a bit.

Part of what I didn't like was what you described - the VK feeling.

For me, as a Viet Nam vet, the problem wasn't doing an anti-war show, specifically an anti Viet Nam show - it was how difficult it is to do a show like that without trivializing the war and the anti-war movement.

Suncoast, for me, looked like a bunch of kids with signs hopping around the field having fun, hence the VK look.

I didn't think that musically or visually they ever captured the depth of feeling that permeated my generation, including those of us that served over there. They made it a cartoon.

I'm really not criticizing. Anti-war shows, like Crossmen's "Protest" show last year are wicked difficult to pull off.

Who teaches a college kid what it feels like, or felt like during those events.

When Crossmen played "We Shall Overcome" last year I cried - in part for what our generation and our country went through trying to heal the wounds of 300 years of oppression, but think about it... how does a drum corps portray the pain of 300 years of oppression and the attempt at healing in a 10 minute field show?

For me Suncoast came up short - musically, visually, spiritually. In a way there's no way they could have made it work, at least for some of us, but the crowds loved them, and judges liked them a lot.

So don't take the reaction of a 32 year old Viet Nam vet who was flying over North Viet Nam the night the cease fire went into effect (at 21 years of age). I was too tired to get it in 1984. 10 years just wasn't enough.

I hope that gives some color. If not, just write it off.

People loved them. They played really well. They gave it as good a shot as you could give it.

How do you put one of the most divisive periods in the country's 200 year (at the time) history on a football field for 10 minutes and hope to make sense of it. For me, it was an attempt but came up short.

For others? I don't know...

Let's straighten all of this up! Many misconceptions on everyone's part in this thread!

A BIG thank you to all those that have served and died so that we can speak freely!

I was a member of the 1984 Suncoast Sound! (notice my profile picture) and am the only person on this thread who was there during the creation of this controversial program.

So I'll try to enlighten you to the impetus behind that show and what Suncoast was ALL about in ‘84.

1. The show was about the 60's PERIOD! The opener Six.O.S., the second production was Aquarius, The third was Requiem, and the last was I Can't Get No Satisfaction/America the Beautiful. It does not get anymore 60' than Satisfaction and Aquarius!! Six.O.S. was an original piece written my Robert Smith for the drum corps to sort of represent the Beatnik social movement, Aquarius was definitely intended to draw light to the turbulent times of the 60's (Cuban Missile Crisis, the threat of nuclear war, war protests, riot scenes w/police beat downs and a violent ending intended to indicate tragedy - loss of life). The loss of life was of course our service men and women. This lead into Requiem, and the intent was exactly what the title means "a mass or reverence for the dead or fallen". BTW we were depicting the protestors of that time, we were NOT protesting the war . . . . . PERIOD! Please check the sign language of the young girl in front of the Vietnam War Memorial, it was all about the loss of her father and how she does not understand why she will never see him again. The closer was intended to unite and stir patriotism in the audience to celebrate our country.

2. The references to the Velvet Knights mocking and poking fun of other corps was NEVER the intent or our program that summer and personally I was offended with the reference to VK. These were two polar opposite drum corps that were totally different and had different intentions from an entertainment/show construction standpoint.

3. Early in the winter season, we were each given an M.I.A. bracelet of a soldier who never returned from Vietnam! We were clearly indoctrinated into the turbulent times and the foul treatment of our military. We had numerous men who served in Vietnam come and speak to the corps so that we would have a clear understanding of the treatment they received and how excited they were to have that Vietnam War Memorial built in D.C. These were all steps to get the members to fully understand the gamut of emotions needed to perform this show.

4. We wore those M.I.A. bracelets all summer to serve as reminders, the staff did not force us to because we wanted to wear them in honor of the those missing still!

5. It was NOT an anti-war show! It was just very difficult to portray in the 80’s without the use of electronics and voice overs/narration.

6. The corps had a quasi day off in D.C. We had already scheduled a concert on the steps of the U.S. Capital and then directly following the staff had us stay in uniform while we drove over the Vietnam Wall to pay respects and hopefully find the names of our M.I.A. bracelets on the Wall. When we arrived we actually got our instruments out and walked over behind and on top of the Wall to play a memorial/tribute. The emotions were overwhelming both from the people watching and the members themselves. There was not a dry eye to be found. One of the most powerful moments in my life! After this the staff gave us our own personal time to find the names on The Wall that were on our M.I.A. bracelets. It was as reverent as 17-21 year olds could be.

7. A balloon was released during Requiem as a reverent way to pay tribute! As are result, by the time Finals rolled around many fans in the audience had white balloons as well to pay tribute and as a means of healing. Hundreds of balloons were released at the end of Requiem and the ovation was deafening to the point where most of the corps did not here the “Resume Hut” to start the closer. (It was a scary performance moment for sure).

8. We were touching on emotions unlike no other at the time. Every show and city brought a new stories about how people were moved and touched by our show. I for one will never forget seeing tears of sadness and sheer joy at one particular performance. It was at DCI Canada in Hamilton, Ontario. The crowd was so emotionally attached to that drum corps that evening, funny because it was in Canada.

9. To this day, I have a profound respect for this time period in country’s history and an even higher appreciation for what every man and woman who serves in our military has sacrificed so that we can live free!!

10. Again, we were not irreverent, disrespectful, protesting the Vietnam War and definitely not like the Velvet Knights!

Enjoy and if you have any further questions, let me or any other member of that ’84 drum corps give you our perspective.

Bill Durst

Suncoast Sound

Contra/Baritone

1984, 85, 87 & 89

[rayfallon]

I'm considering myself lectured.

Doesn't change anything I wrote, but I read as much of your lecture as I could and moved on.

Thanks.

[91FSU08]

I'm considering myself lectured.

Doesn't change anything I wrote, but I read as much of your lecture as I could and moved on.

Thanks.

Unfortunately you will continue to have your opinion which I respect, however Just know that you are the first person to ever relate the corps I marched with to the Velvet Knights. No slam on that organization because it was entertaining for sure, but it was not Suncoast Sound in any way shape or form.

Wearing the jackets of the Air Force Academy cadets brought on a special sense of honor and respect for our country, the military and our drum corps every time we put that uniform on. We NEVER portrayed ourselves in a disrespectful manner towards our honored veterans.

Too bad you did not read my entire post because I spent some time to clearly debunk your claims. You also did not take the time then to understand the '84 Suncoast Sound nor did you take that time to read my informed response.

That's OK but you are still misinformed.

Peace!

[OrlandoContraAlum]

I was going to comment, but Bill said everything that I wanted to say, and said it better, especially since he was there. I did not march Suncoast until later, but even then there was still reverence to our military. We visited the Wall in 1988 as well.

I get what Ray is saying, and while I don't agree with the comparison to VK, I do understand how a young veteran of that war may have viewed the show. I also agree with John in that trying to convey the emotions of the period is a very difficult task in a 13 minute show, using only visuals and music.

Even though I did not march the show, I take great pride in what Suncoast did in 1984. As Ray pointed out, many, many people, loved the show, and continue to do so today. Again, I respect Ray's opinion, and am very thankful for his service.

[eric nielsen]

After reading Ray Fallon's post with the benefit of many years of adulthood between then and now, I understand where he is coming from. The 1984 show was something I was heavily into at the time, having been spoon-fed 10,000 different facts and opinions by our staff in order to help us 'feel' the importance of the show. Only a short time later (summer 1985) I'd already soured on most all of '84's attempts at Important Stuff Being Expressed Here and didn't even wear my MIA bracelet any more. Your effort as a performer is much better spent on executing the fundamentals of your craft and letting your music's tone, intonation, and dynamics do the work of expression for you. I think for one year, we forgot that.

With the '84 staff coming at us from so many different angles and the kids being kids and not knowing what to believe in, the final result predictably radiated outward at 128 different angles. The decision to try to depict the entire decade of the 1960's in a 13-minute show was overly ambitious and without a Spartacus-style libretto or some God-awful PA system with a 19-year-old narrating from a script 2004-style, the audiences by and large had no clue what was going on. Robert himself, after finishing his brilliant '85 Florida Suite, said that looking back, Six.O.S. was "a mess". We also had a very large class of age-outs in '84, all of them bound and determined to propel our Sixties show to an altitude where it really could not fly.

The big shining exception to all of this was Requiem. It's a masterpiece: musically, visually, and emotionally. People GOT that piece. I will never forget the love the DCI Finals audience gave us that night, it was an ovation that seemed to span the length of a dream. And that was very tough to snap out of, not least because more than half the corps missed the count off.

I wish there was a way we could go back and build a different show around Requiem and not try to teach people a wordless history lesson because (a) it can't be done, and (b) we weren't qualified. But do I regret being of a part of that, regret trying for greatness? No!! I'm proud to have been a small part of it.

Edited July 31, 2014 by eric nielsen