Drum Corps Europe Finals Today

[Rifuarian]

We have both DCA and DCI, which serve different needs. So if DCE is more like DCA, that's fine, but it doesn't prove that a DCI model wouldn't work as well.

Basically you have two kinds of people who do drum corps; working stiffs and students. The "Working Stiff League" is a part-time and weekend activity, and can do a lot of things year-round. On the other hand, the student league kids can actually move to the corps for the entire summer break, and train all day, every day, all summer long. I'm wondering why people think that model wouldn't work in Europe, not why it's different from DCE. See what I mean?

I do realize that high school summer vacations are different lengths in different places, but I believe colleges are more consistently 2-3 months as here. And as many professional musicians have pointed out, the DCI-style experience is a great option for the serious performing arts student.

School music is not the phenomenon in Europe that it is in the United States, and scholastic marching music even less so. The equivalent of what you call "music majors" are not going to drop their course of study (which does not end when summer rolls around) to pay thousands of euros to put on a silly looking sparkly uniform and march around on a field playing the same music over and over again on instruments they've probably never heard of. DCI has thousands of kids willing to pay big money to march in its corps. It has tens of thousands of people willing to pay big money to attend shows and buy souvenirs. It has a large support network that took decades to build. None of that exists in Europe.

Edited September 30, 2014 by Rifuarian

[xandandl]

Agreed, Rif.

Yesterday (9/29) is when many European areas began the new scholastic year which runs until mid-July. Universities actually name this Fall semester as Michaelmas (as 9/29 is the traditional feast of SS. Michael, Raphael, and Gabriel, the Archangels.) Not quite conducive to North American drum corps schedules which on the "junior" level seem to be ending earlier each decade.

[HornTeacher]

School music is not the phenomenon in Europe that it is in the United States, and scholastic marching music even less so. The equivalent of what you call "music majors" are not going to drop their course of study (which does not end when summer rolls around) to pay thousands of euros to put on a silly looking sparkly uniform and march around on a field playing the same music over and over again on instruments they've probably never heard of. DCI has thousands of kids willing to pay big money to march in its corps. It has tens of thousands of people willing to pay big money to attend shows and buy souvenirs. It has a large support network that took decades to build. None of that exists in Europe.

I give you full credit for overcoming a "lack of (falsely-intended) political correctness" to state the reality. Hear, hear!! I only wish that I could provide you a tangible +20 for your response.

Edited September 30, 2014 by HornTeacher

[Pete Freedman]

School music is not the phenomenon in Europe that it is in the United States, and scholastic marching music even less so. The equivalent of what you call "music majors" are not going to drop their course of study (which does not end when summer rolls around) to pay thousands of euros to put on a silly looking sparkly uniform and march around on a field playing the same music over and over again on instruments they've probably never heard of. DCI has thousands of kids willing to pay big money to march in its corps. It has tens of thousands of people willing to pay big money to attend shows and buy souvenirs. It has a large support network that took decades to build. None of that exists in Europe.

You are saying that in Europe music education is fundamentally different in some way than here. You seem to be saying it doesn't really happen in schools, which isn't true. In fact "school music" is mandatory for all children in many European countries. That much I know. So can you describe specifically the difference you are getting at? Are you saying there are fewer kids taking music in high school and/or college? Or that they stay at school all summer long? I'm not getting the message here, politically correct or otherwise.

[Rifuarian]

You are saying that in Europe music education is fundamentally different in some way than here. You seem to be saying it doesn't really happen in schools, which isn't true. In fact "school music" is mandatory for all children in many European countries. That much I know. So can you describe specifically the difference you are getting at? Are you saying there are fewer kids taking music in high school and/or college? Or that they stay at school all summer long? I'm not getting the message here, politically correct or otherwise.

School music being a requirement does not mean that European kids are going to be willing to pay enormous amounts of money to participate in a weird American marching band type thing that is culturally foreign to 99.99% of them. Nor does it mean that that European adults are going to pay money to sit in an audience and watch a weird American marching band type thing that is culturally foreign to them. Because of this the outrageously expensive DCI model of drum corps is not possible in Europe. I'm not sure how I can make this more clear to you as you seem to be arguing out of complete or nearly complete ignorance of the situation.

As for your other questions, the answers vary widely as Europe is composed of many nations with separate education systems . . . and since many of these countries are federations like the United States the situation on the ground regarding music education is complicated. But again I'll say that very, very, very few serious European music students are going to pay thousands of euros to put on a silly looking sparkly uniform and march around on a field playing the same music over and over again on instruments they've probably never heard of. Of course this applies to serious music students in the United States as well.

[xandandl]

I have had the opportunity in life to spend extended time in nine different European countries from Italy up to the Baltic, from Ireland east to Poland and its eastern borders.Much of that time was beyond just visiting the usual tourist traps and big cities. Rarely did I find a town, village, or hamlet without its community band or drumline or flag tossers who show themselves at church feasts, community celebrations, and government ceremonies. No, they are not DCI field marching units. But they are the roots of much of what we have later developed. Few of these units are tied with schools, where music tends to be more theoretical, historical, orchestral, and conservatory style. Europe in its schools has a great emphasis on vocal, on choir ensembles, and on individual performance for instruments. And few schools match American averages when it comes to size of institution or population served.

Yes, the economy of Europe does not allow many the type of luxury that DCI summer tours have become. But then again, look at who is now marching in DCI: kids from Italy, Belgium, Germany, Ireland, England, France, Netherlands, Sweden, and Norway. Many have participated in smaller home grown units, studied DCI videos, and have as much desire (and often talent) as their North American counterparts.

[Pete Freedman]

I have had the opportunity in life to spend extended time in nine different European countries from Italy up to the Baltic, from Ireland east to Poland and its eastern borders.Much of that time was beyond just visiting the usual tourist traps and big cities. Rarely did I find a town, village, or hamlet without its community band or drumline or flag tossers who show themselves at church feasts, community celebrations, and government ceremonies. No, they are not DCI field marching units. But they are the roots of much of what we have later developed. Few of these units are tied with schools, where music tends to be more theoretical, historical, orchestral, and conservatory style. Europe in its schools has a great emphasis on vocal, on choir ensembles, and on individual performance for instruments. And few schools match American averages when it comes to size of institution or population served.

Yes, the economy of Europe does not allow many the type of luxury that DCI summer tours have become. But then again, look at who is now marching in DCI: kids from Italy, Belgium, Germany, Ireland, England, France, Netherlands, Sweden, and Norway. Many have participated in smaller home grown units, studied DCI videos, and have as much desire (and often talent) as their North American counterparts.

Wonderful points. Drum corps is extremely European, in the sense that the corps names and uniforms themselves are generally European in origin. I think people are imposing their stereotype of the snobby European looking down his nose at the gauche American on this question. That's like saying drum corps could never succeed in America because it doesn't fit the Julliard/Symphony orchestra scene or the Hollywood scene or whatever stereotype elite image you want to impose. But the just-plain-folks Europeans seem very much like the just-plain-folks Americans to me.

From what I read, the conservatory/university systems in Europe and America are both changing to be more similar to each other in response to evidence that a broader curriculum (i.e. university based) produces better results. My only point there was that the quality of musicianship should improve as more serious musicians discover drum corps, just as happened here.

And to the poster who said European drum corps has been around since the '80s, well so has American drum corps - the 1880s (C.W. Townsmen). The activity has had a long time to develop here. It's moving along quite well there.

[freakyswotboy]

I think people are imposing their stereotype of the snobby European looking down his nose at the gauche American on this question.

Well speaking as a 'snobby European' I am not sure of what point you are trying to make. The reality of the situation in Europe especially as the topic was in relation to DCE is not as you perceive it. The development of bands and Drum and Trumpet corps into Drum and Bugle corps originated in the 1980's because thats when we became aware of DCI.

Kids joined local corps as an activity. Nearly all were illiterate in reading music as it was not taught in the state school systems. Music was learned by ear.

Even today in state schools and universities, music is taught to only a few and does not embrace genre's such as marching band or DCI. It focuses on choral or orchestral works as mentioned in previous posts. You will see an upsurge of Brass bands in certain countries as they were attached to local working mens clubs. This does not again necessarily translate into an interest in drum corps.

If anything, interest in drum corps and related activities has declined over much of Europe as kids become interested in other things/ activities. You must remember that until this year children in England were only obliged to remain in education until the age of 16yrs. Most at that point went onto full time employment.

Nobody is being 'snobby' or 'elitist'. DCE is what it is. It is a bunch of enthusiastic people having a good time doing what they enjoy and trying to entertain people as they go!

[Rifuarian]

I think people are imposing their stereotype of the snobby European looking down his nose at the gauche American on this

Well you certainly gave that straw man a good thrashing. Well done. Fortunately I said nothing of the sort. Yes, music is very important in Europe. Yes, many Europeans have marched in DCI. Have for decades. None of this means that DCI like drum corps is possible in Europe, and anyone thinking otherwise is indulging in a fantasy. Even the senior style DCE corps are having trouble getting along. "Serious" music students in Europe are no more likely to start "discovering" drum corps en masse than serious music students here in the US are. Even though the kids marching corps in the US today are mostly studying music in some capacity in college, they represent a tiny subset of a subset of "serious" music students.

We have to face facts. Junior drum corps is a niche activity and has been since it made the transition from hundreds of community based weekend corps to dozens of full blown, semi pro touring corps. It is also idiomatically American. This makes it very, very difficult for it to expand. But if you really want to find somewhere that DCI-style corps might pop up you don't need to be looking at Europe. Try Asia instead.

[Pete Freedman]

Well, Freaky and Rif, we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. As far as I can see both of your recent posts contain so many debatable points that it's impossible to address them all. But between them I can find not a single actual reason powerhouse corps will not appear in Europe. I am becoming more convinced that they will. The cultural relationship between academic music/dance education and non-academic community-based activities seems quite similar in both places. In any event, DCI corps are in fact academic versions of those community groups, taught by the same music teachers.

You both imply that fewer (% wise) Europeans take music, but fail to provide evidence of this. With all respect, you're just dudes posting on a message board - what authority do you have in this area? Specifically, what percentage of European high school students play an instrument, compared to US? I just did a Google maps search for "Musical Instruments" which produced similar results for towns of similar size in the UK and US when viewed at the same scale. Who are they selling these instruments to?

Are there differences that will affect the product? Sure; the lack of marching bands is a big factor, but that doesn't mean they're not doing the music.

Drum corps is not a weird American outgrowth of marching bands and football, either in history or in practice. It is a valuable summertime educational activity for wanna-be rock drummers, other percussionists, jazz and classical brass players, and dance students, with it's own audience of people many of whom wouldn't watch a marching band if you paid them.