Let the Edits Begin...

[Lincoln]

Ah, so are those the better designers? The ones that plan a show based on a souvenir?

As for my comment about the books I'm willing to lend, no they don't make me feel smarter, they just give me the information and facts on the subject that others on here are claiming to know something about.

But you're not interested in facts, or designers making their vision come to life without worrying about an audio or video purchase. No, you want to hear and see the show exactly as you want it on your souvenir, right?

No. I am the consumer. It's my money. If I like the product, I will spend it, if I don't, then I won't.

But something you state is interesting....."designers making their vision come to life without worrying about an audio or video purchase." All fine and dandy, but in the end if it prevents it from being on a product that I usually buy, I won't be buying the product to not see their vision which was cut from the product.

[Lincoln]

This thread is getting hilarious.

Which is why you erased what you originally wrote?

[Pete Freedman]

Would you like to borrow my books on entertainment laws and uses?

Anyone who writes that it is a fast and easy process has never gone through the process more than once. Your sources in paragraph 2 is blatantly false.

As for the whole discussion forum gibberish, that's the silly standard response, but thanks for it.

If #####ing about it on here is how people want to make themselves feel better because they got it off their chest, fine. But the average person can't possibly think their comments are helping the situation with designers and DCI. If they do, well that's a whole other lack of intelligence that I guess must be pretty typical around here.

Oh, my for the record. Ok, "for the record" if people say copyright issues are quick and easy, then they are clearly lying and have never gone through the process.

Please explain how DCI's tiny staff (perhaps one or two people who have other duties) obtain synch and mechanical rights for perhaps 95% of all musical pieces and all audio clips for 40-50 drum corps in this amount of time? It's been said that they don't begin this process until late in the season due to potential changes. And of course the final determination had to be sent to the video production firm some time ago. I believe this was in an email I received last year from the DCI staff.

You haven't quoted anything relevant from your books. And go tell the curator of the Smithsonian that his/her collections are souvenirs. See if insulting the legacy of the activity helps your argument in any way.

[tesmusic]

Please explain how DCI's tiny staff (perhaps one or two people who have other duties) obtain synch and mechanical rights for perhaps 95% of all musical pieces and all audio clips for 40-50 drum corps in this amount of time? It's been said that they don't begin this process until late in the season due to potential changes. And of course the final determination had to be sent to the video production firm some time ago. I believe this was in an email I received last year from the DCI staff.

You haven't quoted anything relevant from your books. And go tell the curator of the Smithsonian that his/her collections are souvenirs. See if insulting the legacy of the activity helps your argument in any way.

DCI outsources much of the work through companies such as copycat licensing. Also much of the music is public domain, or not as complex for some material. For example. If you use music published through Boosey and Hawkes, you're looking at 6-8 months, and sending scores and samples of design along the way.

If you use music by John Mackey you contact him directly, so it is faster.

Would you like to borrow a book?

As for equating DCI recordings to the Smithsonian, you can't seriously believe that a souvenir CD is the same as the first phonograph record by Thomas Edison in importance?

[Pete Freedman]

DCI outsources much of the work through companies such as copycat licensing. Also much of the music is public domain, or not as complex for some material. For example. If you use music published through Boosey and Hawkes, you're looking at 6-8 months, and sending scores and samples of design along the way.

If you use music by John Mackey you contact him directly, so it is faster.

Would you like to borrow a book?

As for equating DCI recordings to the Smithsonian, you can't seriously believe that a souvenir CD is the same as the first phonograph record by Thomas Edison in importance?

It's been no more than six months, if DCI started the process mid June (supposedly it's much later) and if they just got final word, which may be true if they fast track the video production somehow. So, unless DCI starts the process before the season begins (which I've never heard claimed on here), it does not in fact typically take 6-8 months from B&H for DCI. Even if it did, that would be a reason to move the process 11 months earlier, so that perhaps 12/15 the rights would be established for next year's show, not last year's. In plenty of time for spring camps.

[tesmusic]

It's been no more than six months, if DCI started the process mid June (supposedly it's much later) and if they just got final word, which may be true if they fast track the video production somehow. So, unless DCI starts the process before the season begins (which I've never heard claimed on here), it does not in fact typically take 6-8 months from B&H for DCI. Even if it did, that would be a reason to move the process 11 months earlier, so that perhaps 12/15 the rights would be established for next year's show, not last year's. In plenty of time for spring camps.

You're not actually basing all your info on what you see here when it comes to copyrights and what others say, are you?

Do realize first off, that many corps pick music and shows a year or 2 early, and may start learning a show without all clearances made. DCI also starts the process long before the Jube start to tour as well, so there is not a set timetable that you'll find on this site.

For every corps it's different.

For example, Madison did not use You'll Never Walk Alone until 2013, even though it was intended for an earlier show, and this was mainly based on copyright.

Another example, Madison used Empire State of Mind and had secured all rights long before the season, which means they did their part, only to be told in May that an insurance company paid top dollar to have sole rights, which meant the Scouts could have changed the closer, or had the blackout as the season was starting. Like I said, they were told for months they were set, to have them taken away last minute.

In 2009 the Bernstein estate completely changed their usage grants as the season was ending, thus screwing over many programs that had been given permission for the fall of 2009, only to have them taken away last minute.

Shall I go on, or are you going to continue to debate a topic you know nothing about, other than getting your info from people on here that also know nothing about the topic.

[Lincoln]

Shall I go on, or are you going to continue to debate a topic you know nothing about, other than getting your info from people on here that also know nothing about the topic.

It's incredible how much you say you know. However, if there are cuts on the DVD, I still won't be buying it.

After all, it's just a souvenir...

Edited November 9, 2014 by Lincoln

[tesmusic]

It's incredible how much you say you know. However, if their are cuts on the DVD, I still won't be buying it.

I'm not trying to prove what I know, simply give facts on an issue.

As for your purchase, ok, glad you're not buying it, you have that choice.

And yes it is just a souvenir.

Edited November 9, 2014 by tesmusic

[Pete Freedman]

I stand corrected on one point, that music permissions are started earlier. I've corresponded with DCI staff on this issue in the past (I just found it), who informed me that for the actual musical selections DCI is typically informed the previous winter.

However, while there's no doubt that issues can develop, as you point out, the actual problems we are talking about this year involve audio clips for the most part. I was told by DCI staff in 2012 that DCI found out about the Cadet's use of Peanuts clips only during the season. DCI immediately informed the Cadets that permission would not be granted, and the Cadets used the clips anyway.

That's the real problem. It's not that it takes too long to acquire rights for these clips - it's that the corps - at least in some cases - don't care. That's what Ric Oberlin from DCI told me personally. He also told me to keep up the good fight on this.

[tesmusic]

That's the real problem. It's not that it takes too long to acquire rights for these clips - it's that the corps - at least in some cases - don't care. That's what Ric Oberlin from DCI told me personally. He also told me to keep up the good fight on this.

And you are correct on that. But as I've stated before, these designers believe they are putting out art, and most artists aren't going to modify their work so 20 seconds aren't cut from their on an audio recording or video. Some might, but most aren't.

And if you're serious about the fight, contact the corps and designers, they'll take you more seriously than on here.

Edited November 9, 2014 by tesmusic