Flag presentation

[Bob984]

I have some questions regarding flag presentations and the transition from VFW/AL to DCI.....In VFW and AL, an American Flag presentation was part of a corps' show.  It was required by AL, and I am not sure, but most likely required by VFW as well.  In 1977, the corps that I was in received a 2 point penalty at AL prelims for not having one (it was not required by DCI/DCE), and we put one in for finals.  It was no intended disrespect by our corps; we just were not aware of the requirement, and it was our first appearance at a Legion Nationals, which still were under their own rules/judging sheets. Question one: prior to DCI, were any Canadian corps ever in the VFW/AL championships, and if so, were they exempt from the rule?   My guess is that maybe AL and VFW limited participation to American corps only??  They may have even had to be sponsored by a post; we were.  Other major shows did have Canadian participants.      In the earlier seasons of DCI, many corps still had flag presentations.....I believe that the Troopers may have been the last corps that I saw do one.  In 1977, I know that many corps had "honor guards", which usually were in the corner of the field during the show, and they also led the corps onto the field, and were in front during retreats.  In 1978, there was a big controversy.....DCI allowed the flag to be placed in a stand at the corner of the field and remain there unmanned during the show.    The member would march there with the AF, place it in the stand, and then could go and perform.  Some did this, and some still had a squad.  I actually do not know how things ended up after that season regarding that.  I also do not know what the requirements were from 1972 on, and what was specifically in the rules.  

I know that not too long after 1978, the American squads disappeared during the shows....they were still used on retreat, but not during the competitive appearance, unless the corps chose to do a presentation.   

[OldSnareDrummer]

Interesting questions.

I know Canadian corps had their own National Championships in the 70s, before and after. I don't recall any of them competing in AL or VFW Nationals either under an exemption of some type or otherwise, presumably due to no affiliation and/or sponsorship, but I'm not 100% positive on that. Some glances through old scores on www.fromthepressbox.com might show otherwise. 

You're right though, the AL/VFW guidelines and requirements were pretty strict BITD and the penalties for non-compliance were steep. Surely one of the many reasons for the Midwest Combine and eventually DCI in the early 70s. 

 

[OldSnareDrummer]

Oh and concerning the honor guards in those times. We had them as most every corps did. Parked on a corner of the field. Ours were usually made up of baby sisters of other marching members, probably not more than 9 or 10 years old, though there was one older girl who carried the American Flag for years and never once expressed desire to march among the flags and rifles of the corps. Saw her at a corps reunion several years ago and asked her why that was. She said marching hurt her feet. Not sure if she was yanking my chain or what. Hell, we had more girls in that honor guard than we had snare drummers most years. US flag, state flag, VFW/AL flag and 2 or 3 pistol/sabre carriers. 

Edited June 14, 2022 by OldSnareDrummer

[Bob984]

2 hours ago, OldSnareDrummer said:

Interesting questions.

I know Canadian corps had their own National Championships in the 70s, before and after. I don't recall any of them competing in AL or VFW Nationals either under an exemption of some type or otherwise, presumably due to no affiliation and/or sponsorship, but I'm not 100% positive on that. Some glances through old scores on www.fromthepressbox.com might show otherwise. 

You're right though, the AL/VFW guidelines and requirements were pretty strict BITD and the penalties for non-compliance were steep. Surely one of the many reasons for the Midwest Combine and eventually DCI in the early 70s. 

 

Thanks for your reply.  I know that Canadian Corps regularly competed in many of the big shows (US Open, World Open, CYO, etc.), but on first glance didn't see any at VFW, AL......I am going to look more, though.   DCI had to change flag rules, as I know in 1978 they allowed for the controversial posting in the corner....what I do not know is if it was required to be fielded at that time....not long after, AF squads disappeared, so if there was a requirement, it was dropped.

  Having zero control over judging rules, and also non-uniform judging rules across the country was one major factor in breaking away from AL/VFW and forming DCI.  Another thing seldom talked about is this.......many corps were not onboard with the advent of DCI in 1972.....so much so that several major competitors did not attend the first few DCI Championships.....including corps that likely would have been finalists, based on results of their appearances in other shows those years.  Money (travel costs to Whitewater) was one issue, but by no means not the only one.

[Bob984]

On 6/14/2022 at 4:29 PM, OldSnareDrummer said:

Oh and concerning the honor guards in those times. We had them as most every corps did. Parked on a corner of the field. Ours were usually made up of baby sisters of other marching members, probably not more than 9 or 10 years old, though there was one older girl who carried the American Flag for years and never once expressed desire to march among the flags and rifles of the corps. Saw her at a corps reunion several years ago and asked her why that was. She said marching hurt her feet. Not sure if she was yanking my chain or what. Hell, we had more girls in that honor guard than we had snare drummers most years. US flag, state flag, VFW/AL flag and 2 or 3 pistol/sabre carriers. 

Yes, I know many corps back in the day had huge honor guards, both Jr. and Sr. Corps.  Some of the alumni corps still do.  Also, just like your corps, in mine we had some younger members (who would eventually become performing guard members) be the honor guard, in the corner of the field.  I know that we did that at DCI finals in 1977....I don't remember if we did in 1978, though I think that we did (the option to plant that year....very controversial....was done by some corps). 

[Northern Thunder]

On 6/14/2022 at 3:36 PM, Bob984 said:

 I know that Canadian Corps regularly competed in many of the big shows (US Open, World Open, CYO, etc.), but on first glance didn't see any at VFW, AL......I am going to look more, though.   

The Lionettes All-Girl Corps (Sarnia, Ontario) competed at both the 1960 & 1961 VFW Nationals prelims.