BG984 Posted May 26 Share Posted May 26 In DCA, there was/is a rule that you could not judge a corps that you wrote for/taught for the two season following. I believe DCI had/has this same rule. However, to my knowledge, there was/is no rule about judging family members, including immediate family members. Should there have been? Should there be? In 1979, a visual judge judged the 1979 DCI Championship prelims. That judge's son was the drum major for the Troopers. This is not to take anything away from the Troopers. However, "Dad" gave the Troopers their highest mark/placement in visual for the entire season; an eye-opening 2.7 points ahead of the next competitor, the Crossmen.....as a result, the two corps tied for 12th on the straight recap, and a two tenths edge in penalties put the Troopers into finals and kept the Crossmen out. The Crossmen took the only Associate Championship ever held the following night, with a score that was 4.45 points higher than their prelim score, and would have placed them in 7th at DCI finals. They also did the exhibition right before the competitive corps at Finals....perhaps a slight embarrassment for DCI, as they were clearly better than the first group of competitors on after them. Even the commentators were confused. Is it ethical for a judge to judge his son's corps performance, let alone in what was the most important show of the year? Although there may or may not have been "bias", I think it's safe to say that there could have been a suspicion of "bias" in this case by some. The question remains.....should a judge be allowed to judge the performance/show of their own child's group? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 that assignment never should have been accepted or made Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG984 Posted May 27 Author Share Posted May 27 2 hours ago, Jeff Ream said: that assignment never should have been accepted or made I agree..............and the results that day will always be questioned because of this being allowed. Also, this little fact (ie the judge and his son) was largely hidden/brushed under the rug after the show..............even scarier is to this day, I do not know of a rule which would prohibit it from happening again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CenterTimp Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 (edited) Correct, that assignment should never have happened. BUT . . . (here it comes), the other M & M judge also had Crossmen below Troop. In addition, how many have actually seen video of Crossmen's '79 Prelims performance? It is quite rare, because only Finalists made it onto Tom Blair's DVD series. Members of non-Finalist corps could purchase a VHS tape, and I have seen one. Crossmen were not good that day. Visually, it looked like just going through the motions. Quite noticeably sloppy. Conversely, Troopers were always known as very clean marchers, their bread-and-butter. Had to be in order to score, in that tick era, because they were already going in at a musical disadvantage. I believe that they turned it on at the right time, and it paid off. Edited May 28 by CenterTimp Mistype. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted May 29 Share Posted May 29 On 5/27/2024 at 2:03 AM, BG984 said: I agree..............and the results that day will always be questioned because of this being allowed. Also, this little fact (ie the judge and his son) was largely hidden/brushed under the rug after the show..............even scarier is to this day, I do not know of a rule which would prohibit it from happening again. i believe there are better rules in place....Prosperie didn't judge while his son was marching. I believe Marty also didn't judge while his son was marching. I know when my daughter gets into band/indoor, i'm done judging. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted May 29 Share Posted May 29 On 5/27/2024 at 2:57 PM, CenterTimp said: Correct, that assignment should never have happened. BUT . . . (here it comes), the other M & M judge also had Crossmen below Troop. In addition, how many have actually seen video of Crossmen's '79 Prelims performance? It is quite rare, because only Finalists made it onto Tom Blair's DVD series. Members of non-Finalist corps could purchase a VHS tape, and I have seen one. Crossmen were not good that day. Visually, it looked like just going through the motions. Quite noticeably sloppy. Conversely, Troopers were always known as very clean marchers, their bread-and-butter. Had to be in order to score, in that tick era, because they were already going in at a musical disadvantage. I believe that they turned it on at the right time, and it paid off. i have heard the GE brass tape for Troop. it's on youtube Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG984 Posted May 29 Author Share Posted May 29 On 5/27/2024 at 2:57 PM, CenterTimp said: Correct, that assignment should never have happened. BUT . . . (here it comes), the other M & M judge also had Crossmen below Troop. In addition, how many have actually seen video of Crossmen's '79 Prelims performance? It is quite rare, because only Finalists made it onto Tom Blair's DVD series. Members of non-Finalist corps could purchase a VHS tape, and I have seen one. Crossmen were not good that day. Visually, it looked like just going through the motions. Quite noticeably sloppy. Conversely, Troopers were always known as very clean marchers, their bread-and-butter. Had to be in order to score, in that tick era, because they were already going in at a musical disadvantage. I believe that they turned it on at the right time, and it paid off. I actually have the video, and no argument that they (the Crossmen) marched a down job in terms of visual performance, and I am not disputing the Troopers beating them in visual performance. You mentioned about the other visual judge also giving the Troopers the edge.....yes, but it was by .6, not 2.7. The number given by judge 2 was a full point lower than the judge in question, as well as five positions lower. (12th to 7th). Musically, it wasn't close, IMO, and Crossmen were 7th in brass......I also did find it interesting that the GE brass judge in prelims had the Troopers in 5th place; they were 11th in finals. In conclusion, visual was the only caption that the Troopers beat the Crossmen in that day, and the very huge spread by the Troopers' drum major's father was the number that put them in finals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted May 29 Share Posted May 29 5 minutes ago, BG984 said: I actually have the video, and no argument that they (the Crossmen) marched a down job in terms of visual performance, and I am not disputing the Troopers beating them in visual performance. You mentioned about the other visual judge also giving the Troopers the edge.....yes, but it was by .6, not 2.7. The number given by judge 2 was a full point lower than the judge in question, as well as five positions lower. (12th to 7th). Musically, it wasn't close, IMO, and Crossmen were 7th in brass......I also did find it interesting that the GE brass judge in prelims had the Troopers in 5th place; they were 11th in finals. In conclusion, visual was the only caption that the Troopers beat the Crossmen in that day, and the very huge spread by the Troopers' drum major's father was the number that put them in finals. penalty didnt help either Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG984 Posted May 29 Author Share Posted May 29 10 minutes ago, Jeff Ream said: penalty didnt help either no doubt.....I never heard what it was for.................on a side note, if my memory serves me correctly, I remember seeing Little Robbie, in full uniform, having to be held back, as he was going to jump the fence to try to get after said judge.......I think it would have been a hoot if he made it out there.......................that same year, there was a GE Percussion judge (prelims) who also judged Allentown Finals. I was teaching the Cadets. Our marching was bad (which pretty much ruled out any kind of finals contention) but the corps was starting to play (12th in perc. performance from one judge and 12th from the field brass judge)......we had been getting between 7.5 and 8.4 in GE percussion, and this guy gives us a 6.1 at Allentown finals. Pesceone was called, and was told by a certain individual that we wanted this guy OUT at Brimingham. We were told that it could not be done. Then, the bombshell...."if so and so is judging, we are going to sit the Cadets down on the field and tell the audience why". We were assured by Pesceone that we would get a fair shake, and we had his word on that. The said judge gave us an 8.7, and wrote two words...."nice job"......on the sheet..........I guess he was told..........lol........we did get whammied in PA, but that was probably because we took about a million flams out of the show because they couldn't play them.....lol............ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CenterTimp Posted May 29 Share Posted May 29 13 hours ago, Jeff Ream said: i have heard the GE brass tape for Troop. it's on youtube Could you please share that link? I can't find it. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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