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[Blaringbrass]

Anyone know some techniques or exercises that would help increase our trumpets sections volume output?

I changed the original topic content to make it more easily digested and have no future confusions. It still pretty much asks the same thing as before. Thank you for your replies.

[brassguymike]

Hate to ruin your fun, but an individual playing loud isn't really that impressive.  In fact it usually makes me mad.  An ensemble playing loud, in tune, and with good tone quality...now that I can dig.  A single player trying to increase their own volume just ends up sticking out of the ensemble and then guys like me have to run around the field and yell at you for not matching the volume of the ensemble.

Now if you want to talk about how to increase the volume of an ensemble, that's a different question that I'd be willing to discuss.

[Blaringbrass]

Half my trumpet section is pretty weak, I was asking for some exercises that would increase all of our volumes, not just mine. People sticking out also pisses me off as well and I am glad to say I don't play like that because I know better and I always fit in the ensemble, always. You would of realized that if you would of read my post and not assumed I was a low caliber player which I am not.And for you not even seeing my band, this pretty bold for you to say you'd walk around telling us to match the volume of our ensemble but thats ok, I understand what you mean. If you want to fly out to seattle, listen to our band and then give me your opinion I'd would be very open to listen to it because I'm sure you have some experiance and are knoledgeable. Anyway 10 players out of twenty play pretty darn loud but I need to let the other 10 out of the cage. SO back to my original question, does anyone have any exercises that would help in this area.

[mikemey]

Hate to ruin your fun, but an individual playing loud isn't really that impressive.  In fact it usually makes me mad.  An ensemble playing loud, in tune, and with good tone quality...now that I can dig.  A single player trying to increase their own volume just ends up sticking out of the ensemble and then guys like me have to run around the field and yell at you for not matching the volume of the ensemble.

Now if you want to talk about how to increase the volume of an ensemble, that's a different question that I'd be willing to discuss.

I'd be happy to start that discussion.

I've always heard the open throat and using the diaphram stuff, and I do that the best that I can.

How can you get 8 mellophones to sound like 16?  Or a 35 Horn line sound like 70?  I'd love to hear it!

[brassguymike]

I'd be happy to start that discussion.

I've always heard the open throat and using the diaphram stuff, and I do that the best that I can.

How can you get 8 mellophones to sound like 16?  Or a 35 Horn line sound like 70?  I'd love to hear it!

Open throat...good start.  It's easier to move a large quantity of air through a large, open pipe.

Using the diaphragm...you can only use it to inhale.  Now in order to play at higher volumes, you're going to need a large quantity of air, so yes you need the diaphragm to contract and allow the consequential vacuum to suck in a large quantity of air.  When you hear someone say "play with diaphragm support," ask them how can a muscle contract in 2 different directions.  No part of the human body is made where one muscle causes 2 different movements.  To extend your arm your triceps contract, to bring your arm back in your biceps contract.  Your diaphragm is used only for inhalation, the abdominal and back muscles are used for exhalation.

I believe that it is more important to work on how a wind player inhales more than exhales.  If you don't take in a large quantity of air, no amount of abdominal or back pressure is going to cause a large quantity of air to escape.

Now to the question of how to make a line sound bigger than they are...  the line must play with the same intonation and tone quality.  You must attack and release together.  You can blow loud all you want but if you aren't in tune , aren't playing with good tone qualities, and aren't playing together, it will never sound as good or as loud.  So basically what I'm saying is don't concentrate on simply playing louder, concentrate on playing together more.  Playing louder will be a consequence of this.  Exercises that concentrate on intonation, tone quality, and attacks and releases played at mp will help you eventually get to a nice fat ff.

If you'd like to read more about many of the philosophies I'm talking about, check out Arnold Jacobs: Song and Wind @ http://www.windsongpress.com/  

This book should be the brass players bible.  I've read the book like 10 times and still learn something new everytime.

Hope this helps some,

Mike

[Galen]

Now to the question of how to make a line sound bigger than they are...  the line must play with the same intonation and tone quality.  You must attack and release together.  You can blow loud all you want but if you aren't in tune , aren't playing with good tone qualities, and aren't playing together, it will never sound as good or as loud.  So basically what I'm saying is don't concentrate on simply playing louder, concentrate on playing together more.  Playing louder will be a consequence of this.  Exercises that concentrate on intonation, tone quality, and attacks and releases played at mp will help you eventually get to a nice fat ff.

I didn't do well in physics when I took it in high school but I remember this part pretty well. Sound waves have a cool way of acting when they're layed on top of each other. If 2 or more perfectly (or near perfectly) matching sound waves are laid on top each other, they will create a new wave of equal frequency but with a greater amplitude. In layman's terms, the more together and more in tune you can get your ensemble to play, the louder the overall sound will be, and the farther it will travel. This can also produce the "overtone" phenomenon that occurs when a chord is played so in tune that if you listen carefully you can hear extra notes in the chord, even though they aren't actually being played.

[brassguymike]

I'm sorry to hear that half of your section is weak.  I did not wish to cause an uproar but, you specifically asked for "some exercises that will increase volume, I'm at a pretty darn loud volume level right now but I want to be louder, and I also would use them for my section too and  have them try and match the leads volume."  Your words come across as a hot shot HS trumpet player who thinks its cool to simply play loud.  If this is true, don't be too offended by my comments...there's a whole breed of that kind out there.  If it isn't true, then don't take offense.

If the lower players can't match the leads volume, then the leads need to come down.  The lower players need to work on the fundamentals of playing and not simply playing louder.  If the lowers can improve and match intonation and tone quality with the upper players, then and only then the whole section can play louder.  Ie. the "caged" animals need to be house-broken before they're let loose.

No where in your post do you say that don't stick out of the ensemble.  You say that your "pretty #### loud, but want to play louder" even though the lower players can't match you now.  Instead of focusing on making yourself louder, you could perhaps use the time to help the other players work on the fundamentals.  I did not say I personally would walk around telling you to blend into the ensemble.  I said guys like me, meaning band directors and corps brass staff.  Now if you'd like to fly me out to Seattle, then I'll take a listen to your band.  I've never been to that part of the country so I'd love the opportunity.

I'm only trying to enlighten, not #### you off.

Mike

[Blaringbrass]

Nor was I trying to #### you off, it just felt to me like your reply was like you knew everything and I knew nothing, obviously thats not true and we both know that. I personally do not want to start any hostility between you and me and the other forumers so I appoligize IF my reply was a little more than just a reply.I should of created my original topic more carefully having it asking a question then listing my own playing abilities. We both are brass players and a little showboating on both sides is always expected. Thank you for your information on this subject and I look forward to more of your knowledge in future topics.

Kyle

[brassguymike]

Sorry my internet's been down for the past 48 hours, so I haven't been able to respond.  You didn't #### me off...  it takes more than that to #### me off.  I'm glad that you don't want to turn this into a pissing match.  We'll leave that to the RAMDers.  Of course you know something...you found your way here didn't you?

[madisonmello]

A Tuba player came in and did some exercises when I was a music major (EONS AGO) for breathing/increasing volume.

There were a couple that stood out:

The first one was an exercise to see how well the diaphragm was being used.  He told us the lower the "pitch" of our breath, the deeper breath we were taking, and that breath was coming from the diaphragm.  If your pitch was high, it meant you were taking your breath in your chest and not the diaphragm.  It was awesome.  It helped my air endurance and my volume ouput so much it was incredible.  Not only that, but it helps you to focus on your diaphragm and not trying to "throat out" the sound.  One I recomend.

The other one was kind of a game.  We got music stands and got a small notecard.  We tried to keep the notecard off the bottome of the stand, keeping it up with our breath.  Very challenging to do.  Don't know if I would recomend this one.

Hope it helps!!

Andy Smith

Railmen 93-94

Madison Scouts 96,98-99