They Just Don't See It....

[soonerjeff]

Okay, this is a big stretch, but I'll throw it out there anyway: I know that many current members will gradually learn over the summer about the history of their corps, but I don't see that they learn the overall history of the activity. Would that be something that maybe DCI should be involved with? Sort of like how the NBA or other professional organizations have meetings with teams where they teach them the rules and such. I know DCI officials/staff/historians can't meet with every corps, and I know that corps' staffs would never give up rehearsal time for those kinds of meetings, but a nice dream scenario would be that DCI held an hour long informational thing at a couple of the early season "big shows" that every corps will be at at least one of them, and they teach them about this big organization that they're a part of, the structure, how it works, the history, etc. I dunno, its just an 'out there' idea.

But I do think that DCI should think about taking a step toward honoring its past or the history of the drum corps activity by trying to display its roots better. There isn't even a "history" section of DCI.org, and I can't afford to buy any of the old legacy DVDs just so that I can see a couple of examples of what "old school" drum corps was like. You can get mad at me, but as a young person who's a newer fan (about 4 years now), I'd buy one of the more current DVDs (late 1980s and up) before I bought an older one that I was unfamiliar with.

PS- I couldn't decide if this should be a separate topic or not, but here it is: I was also wondering just what some of you thought about the activity back when you were participating. Did you see it as an "art form", like many current members and fans see it as today, or was it seen as more "pageantry" and "military discipline", considering that the American flag was still so integrated (as an example).

Edited July 7, 2004 by soonerjeff

[Walter]

It's unfortunate that most current marchers of DCI, have never seen drum corps from the early years to the late seventies to see what us old timers are so passionate about.

I think if you were to see what we did in those early years, you may change you

mind. We had a lot of things going on in the world that affected drum corps immensely, re: VIET NAM and 1972 Olympic Crisis, the Cold War, The Iranian

Hostages just to name a few.

Some of us had friends go to Viet Nam that marched in drum corps and never came home. I'm not trying to say that todays events of 9 11 and the Iraqi War are

any less important but this was our youth and we had to live through it just like you kids of today have to.

It's good to see that you guys and gals have the same passion as we did those many years ago. As we move on in life these days we see former members die from disease and other accidental deaths and yearn for those days once more.

I guess we are selfish in a way but some times it's the tough times you go through in life that make you that much tougher later in life. Sometimes I sit here in front of my computer and day dream about those "good old days" and have to smile at all we went though TOGETHER. It's the things you go through together that makes you cherish the people you go though them with.

At least I DO.....

[Jim Clark]

I was a both a charter member and a first year rook-out at Spirit, so my knowledge of earlier Drum Corps was extremely limited. Like a lot of people, I learned a LOT more about Drum Corps history AFTER I aged out.

I feel most fortunate to still be able to hang out with the current members of Spirit from time to time. The biggest thing I've learned (and I hope they have too) is that while the old-school/new-school experience is pretty different on the field, it's almost the same off the field. Like Harold 'Pops' Ott said at the Spirit banquet a couple of years ago "You know, it never really changes".

If you're lucky enough to be able to volunteer with a local Drum Corps, do it. That's how they learn. I'm always hearing current members say they hope they can help out some day like they've seen other Alumni do.

Our community has been "paying it forward" for years.

It's the Drum Corps way.

[abgiles]

I guess you could call me old school. I marched SCV in 81-82, and I love tradition as much as the next guy (who the #### is that "next" guy anyway?). I was away from the activity for many years, and this summer attended TOC in San Jose. What I saw there was a group of kids with a great deal of heart, executing drill we never dreamed of, playing with skill we never imagined, and performing like stars. I fell in love all over again. To think that these kids don't "get it" is riciculous. So what if they don't know about the old tick system, or don't feel compelled to march around with mallets or tympani, or can't tell you what the closer was from some obscure corps that played its last note before they were born? history is important, but they are a part of that history, the result of evolution. I can go back and watch shows from the 70s and 80s and, of course, still be wowed by them. But these corps today wow me just as much.

[ironlips]

It was good then. It's good now. And without the "then" there'd be no "now".

Some things are much better: the instruments, the skills, the logistics, for instance. Other things are not so good: decline in participation, disconnect from the local community, much of the musical appeal.

Still, drum corps is pound for pound one of the best experiences you will ever have on this planet. Celebrate it, all of it, the "then" and the "now".

[Walter]

I guess you could call me old school.  I marched SCV in 81-82, and I love tradition as much as the next guy (who the #### is that "next" guy anyway?).  I was away from the activity for many years, and this summer attended TOC in San Jose.  What I saw there was a group of kids with a great deal of heart, executing drill we never dreamed of, playing with skill we never imagined, and performing like stars.  I fell in love all over again.  To think that these kids don't "get it" is riciculous.  So what if they don't know about the old tick system, or don't feel compelled to march around with mallets or tympani, or can't tell you what the closer was from some obscure corps that played its last note before they were born?  history is important, but they are a part of that history, the result of evolution.  I can go back and watch shows from the 70s and 80s and, of course, still be wowed by them.  But these corps today wow me just as much.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Point taken and respected. Sometimes my brain gets stuck in "the good old days!"

[longfade]

Hello everyone,

I just joined this Forum about 20 minutes ago, and I have to say that I am blown away by how civil and respectful everyone is, especially given the potentially incendiery subject matter here!

I marched in the mid-80's (85-86), after seeing my first DCI Finals on PBS in 83. We had the tape in the band room and me and my drum line friends watched it EVERY day. Same thing with the 84 tape that we got the next year. There was so much excitement, energy, and raw power! I always get chills when I think about Garfield ending "Rocky Point Holiday" and Rondo yelling out "LOOK AT THAT FIELD COVERAGE!!". Not to mention the Devs, Spirit, 27, etc.

Marching in 1985 in a non-top 12 corps, I had the benefit of running to the stands to hear SCV, Madison, Devs, etc every night. Even at that time, it seemed tamer and less urgent. I knew everyone was doing great stuff and believe me, I was yelling my head off every night but something felt just a little different. It was interesting hearing all the older corps members talking about the fact that people were singing on the field now, and Garfield was starting their show OFF the field, and Star of Indiana was corporate-sponsored (that was a bid deal), while talking about their 76, 77, 78 stints with SCV and Blue Devils. I was then and still am fascinated by the raw ###### TOUGHNESS that seemed to be a requirement back then! I started getting depressed and uninterested by the empty and insipid Broadway esthetic that started creeping into the activity right around 85.

Progress is progress and personal taste is just that. So as much as I hate the ridiculous drum tuning today, for example, I recognize it as a necessary and inevitable by product of progress and evolution. The same with 3-valve horns and tunings. I am unequivocably impressed with the unbelievable proficiency that corps demonstrate now. Totally mindblowing.......but then I find myself totally unmoved at the end. I can't help but think, "To what end is all this pomp and overblown virtuosity if it leaves me cold?"

I have started getting excited about corps again and checking things out. I really want to love what's happening as much as I did in 83-86. If not, at least I can start buying the legacy DVDs!!

[CapRegBari]

i'm not really talking to old dutch boy here, just people in general.

but many of us do see things from your perspective. we just don't agree with you. you have the mindset that if we could only open our little eyes and see from your perspective, we'd be enlightened. the attitude that we're deaf-and-dumb monkeys doesn't help much. that kind of attitude is what creates what little resentment there is between generations (in drum corps and in life). i think all of my generation would be very interested to hear a little history, but some of the alumni (not all) are too busy talking about what crap the activity that we are currently involved in has become. when someone tells me that what i'm doing isn't REALLY drum and bugle corps, i'm not likely to take them very seriously. if i told you what you did wasn't REALLY drum and bugle corps, you'd tell me to shove it. you'd be offended.

there are definately current marching members who know their drum corps history. and we appreciate the history. i think it's fascinating, and i know a lot of other kids do too. i know more than one person my age that owns that history of drum corps book.

we appreciate the past, but that doesn't mean we want to grab onto it and never let it go. when you marched, and you learned about some tradition or change from 20 years ago, would you have instantly felt loyalty to it? doubtful. you wouldn't have hopped on the alumni bandwagon and started shaking your fist at DCI. i don't really care what key the horns are in, and i honestly don't care if the pit is amped, but i enjoy acoustic drum corps as well as horns in G. my kids aren't going to give a crap whether there are vocals or electronics, but i hope they'll enjoy my '89 legacy DVD. i think that's important.

maybe i shouldn't post on this board. maybe this is "alumni only". i should let ya'll vent and reminisce, but the title in itself is kind of a question, so i thought i'd answer.

[abgiles]

Well said. My general take on it is this: drum corps was awesome then and it's awesome now. There have been changes, but it remains an amazing activity. (By the way, I'm pretty sure this isn't meant to be limited to alumni only!)

i'm not really talking to old dutch boy here, just people in general.

but many of us do see things from your perspective. we just don't agree with you. you have the mindset that if we could only open our little eyes and see from your perspective, we'd be enlightened. the attitude that we're deaf-and-dumb monkeys doesn't help much. that kind of attitude is what creates what little resentment there is between generations (in drum corps and in life). i think all of my generation would be very interested to hear a little history, but some of the alumni (not all) are too busy talking about what crap the activity that we are currently involved in has become. when someone tells me that what i'm doing isn't REALLY drum and bugle corps, i'm not likely to take them very seriously. if i told you what you did wasn't REALLY drum and bugle corps, you'd tell me to shove it. you'd be offended.

there are definately current marching members who know their drum corps history. and we appreciate the history. i think it's fascinating, and i know a lot of other kids do too. i know more than one person my age that owns that history of drum corps book.

we appreciate the past, but that doesn't mean we want to grab onto it and never let it go. when you marched, and you learned about some tradition or change from 20 years ago, would you have instantly felt loyalty to it? doubtful. you wouldn't have hopped on the alumni bandwagon and started shaking your fist at DCI. i don't really care what key the horns are in, and i honestly don't care if the pit is amped, but i enjoy acoustic drum corps as well as horns in G. my kids aren't going to give a crap whether there are vocals or electronics, but i hope they'll enjoy my '89 legacy DVD. i think that's important.

maybe i shouldn't post on this board. maybe this is "alumni only". i should let ya'll vent and reminisce, but the title in itself is kind of a question, so i thought i'd answer.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Walter]

i'm not really talking to old dutch boy here, just people in general.

but many of us do see things from your perspective. we just don't agree with you. you have the mindset that if we could only open our little eyes and see from your perspective, we'd be enlightened. the attitude that we're deaf-and-dumb monkeys doesn't help much. that kind of attitude is what creates what little resentment there is between generations (in drum corps and in life). i think all of my generation would be very interested to hear a little history, but some of the alumni (not all) are too busy talking about what crap the activity that we are currently involved in has become. when someone tells me that what i'm doing isn't REALLY drum and bugle corps, i'm not likely to take them very seriously. if i told you what you did wasn't REALLY drum and bugle corps, you'd tell me to shove it. you'd be offended.

there are definately current marching members who know their drum corps history. and we appreciate the history. i think it's fascinating, and i know a lot of other kids do too. i know more than one person my age that owns that history of drum corps book.

We appreciate the past, but that doesn't mean we want to grab onto it and never let it go. when you marched, and you learned about some tradition or change from 20 years ago, would you have instantly felt loyalty to it? doubtful. you wouldn't have hopped on the alumni bandwagon and started shaking your fist at DCI. i don't really care what key the horns are in, and i honestly don't care if the pit is amped, but i enjoy acoustic drum corps as well as horns in G. my kids aren't going to give a crap whether there are vocals or electronics, but i hope they'll enjoy my '89 legacy DVD. i think that's important.

maybe i shouldn't post on this board. maybe this is "alumni only". i should let ya'll vent and reminisce, but the title in itself is kind of a question, so i thought i'd answer.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks for your input CapRegBari, when I first started this thread back in July, I was not really in the current mode for drum & bugle corps. Then in August I went to denver for finals week and talked to a lot of people about the "good old days"

and today and I must say that they were telling me things that I had not thought

about.

Firstly, that was then and this is now buddy. Enjoy your time and let the kids of today enjoy their time. It's been 26 years since I marched and things don't stay the same. When I marched the newest thing was the two valved horns. After many hours of talking to these people I have started to relax about things that I have no control over but I still have my opinions about and nobody can take that

away from me.

I loved my time in drum & bugle corps and I hope the kids of today do the same.

This is the best activity for teenagers of any decade and I hope it's around for

many more....

Edited December 29, 2004 by Old Dutch Boy Cadet