Why all Mellophones?

[Shadow_7]

So anyway, I finally have dvd's of corps to listen to. And as I go through the show I was a part of, I can't seem to distinguish between my mellophone sound and the sounds of a good lead bari line. While it is probably easier to play mello on that part, than high and loud on a bari, I really can't tell any difference in the end result as far as sound goes.

I should of stuck to french horn. Although balance wise the corps needed 3 strong mellos to fend off the 7 strong baris. Frenchie would have gotten lost in the mix. But IMO a few of the selections would have been better off on frenchie. At least I have a frenchie to practice on now to get to the level I wanted to be at last season. There's only so much you can do with only four months on a new instrument.

[G-horns]

Why has the all-Mellophone midvoice section become the prevailing standard?

Are we going to let the mid-80s Garfield Cadets and the early 90s Star of Indiana rule drum corps orchestration forever?

Arrangers - write for French Horns and Flugels, too!

Wonderful timbres await you.

Where to begin....

Soprano to mellophone transition isn't a slam-dunk. They are different instruments and the mellophone, being a "########" instrument, can be a beast when it comes to intonation if the player is inexperienced.

Mellophones with french horn mouthpieces don't make sense to me. The sound suffers and traditional FH mouthpieces are a big challenge to control at 160 bpm.

French horns are still in the Kanstul catalog - bugles in G, marching horns in Bb and F. Others make 'em in F, don't know about Bb.

Using alto horns in the lower soprano voice will not necessarily be a good thing. The arranger has to pay attention to timbre and overall ensemble sound.

High first baritone parts can substitute for french horns, but there aren't too many bari players that can honk that high for a whole show.

Many of the old FH players I've met were using mouthpieces with a wide rim - sometimes a trumpet MP with a turned down shank to fit the FH receiver.

Muchachos had frenchies in the line in 1974.

Adding frenchies to a hornline is a decision to be made by the Brass Caption Head, in conjunction with the corps' creative staff and administration. Securing the services of a competent arranger is a part of that process - not all so-called arrangers are capable of taking advantage of the full palette.

... I guess that's enough for now.

"########"= fatherless child

Edited October 19, 2005 by G-horns

[ambassadorhorn]

Many of the old FH players I've met were using mouthpieces with a wide rim - sometimes a trumpet MP with a turned down shank to fit the FH receiver.

This old French Horn player used the same mouthpiece he used for his concert horn.

I am beginning to wonder if anyone has actually tried to play a french horn in a contemporary drill show. There are some things that won't work like a very long step size but I think there's quite a bit that a french horn embouchure can survive.

Are there any recent junior corps french horn players out there?

[G-horns]

This old French Horn player used the same mouthpiece he used for his concert horn.

Sorry, you're not old enough. B)

[ambassadorhorn]

Sorry, you're not old enough. B)

I think anyone who played when French Horns were a regular part of corps horn lines seems old now. :P

Listening to "Box Center"'s 1961 tribute show recently, it seemed that French horns _were_ the midrange voice at that time. If they could play them marking time up to their chins (albeit not terribly lyrically) shouldn't it be possible to play them in today's drills? Perhaps it's not a matter of marching but of arranger's preference.

It's interesting that in 1961 there seems to have been a similar standardization of instrumentation although back then it was due to the circuit rules (VFW and AL) rather then preference.

"Real" oldtimers can correct me on this if I am wrong as I wasn't able to see any show then, not being born and all. :sshh:

[G-horns]

I think anyone who played when French Horns were a regular part of corps horn lines seems old now. :P

Listening to "Box Center"'s 1961 tribute show recently, it seemed that French horns _were_ the midrange voice at that time. If they could play them marking time up to their chins (albeit not terribly lyrically) shouldn't it be possible to play them in today's drills? Perhaps it's not a matter of marching but of arranger's preference.

It's interesting that in 1961 there seems to have been a similar standardization of instrumentation although back then it was due to the circuit rules (VFW and AL) rather then preference.

"Real" oldtimers can correct me on this if I am wrong as I wasn't able to see any show then, not being born and all. :sshh:

A bit off topic, but of historical significance...

Those of us who are 50+ may remember hornlines with sopranos, tenors, french horns and baritones (small ones). By 1961, tenor horns had pretty much gone out of vogue and bass baritones were in the process of displacing the small baritones.

Contras were not yet on the market. The first ones were made by Getzen for the 1962 season but were not allowed in AL competition until the following year. In 1963(?) Whalley-Royce introduced the Imperial model contra, which was bigger and much better. According to some knowledgeable people, the W-R horn was used as a reference when Olds designed their Ultratone contra.

Mellophones were introduced by Whalley-Royce at about the same time as the contras. So your 1961 recording was definitely populated with french horns and no mellophones. FWIW, a number of corps wouldn't use the W-R mellophones because they were intonation nightmares. A number of them have survived as lamps.

A bit more on topic, does anyone remember the Getzen "Concert Model" french horn? It was produced prior to the factory fire. The bell on that thing was so thin, it would bend if you looked at it wrong. Nice sounding horn, but not built for the road.

[DaKman]

with today's ensemble, there is no reason to have so many varied instruments in the voicings (arguably the euphonium could be omitted as well...or all euphoniums instead)....why have trumpets, coronets, flugels, mellophones, french horns, baritones, euphoniums, marching trombones, tubas, sousaphones? what is the purpose? it is still a basic symphonic set up....violins, violas, cello, contrabass.....soprano-alto-tenor-baritone-bass....i doubt there would be added richness to the program....now, when you add flutes, clarinets, saxophones (alto and tenors) that might make a difference.

By the way, i like the scoring done in the mid 80's, early 90's with mid voicings screaming away....mid voices are the purest tone, decibel wise, intercepted and translated by human ears. would the Dev's "goodbye yesterday", smith's "midnight in miami" or madison's "malaguena" be the same without its mellophone voicing?...yes, i know the dev's marched MFL horns back then...but its one or the other....you dont need 3 different instruments to make up one voicing....besides, marching french horns are very user-unfriendly compared to the mellophone with virtually the same sound.

BTW, the old no-valve, one-valve bugles sounded horrible and bright...no warmth to the tone at all.....there is a reason why things progressed, its called quality.

Edited October 21, 2005 by DaKman

[ambassadorhorn]

with today's ensemble, there is no reason to have so many varied instruments in the voicings (arguably the euphonium could be omitted as well...or all euphoniums instead)....why have trumpets, coronets, flugels, mellophones, french horns, baritones, euphoniums, marching trombones, tubas, sousaphones? what is the purpose? it is still a basic symphonic set up....violins, violas, cello, contrabass.....soprano-alto-tenor-baritone-bass....i doubt there would be added richness to the program....now, when you add flutes, clarinets, saxophones (alto and tenors) that might make a difference.

By the way, i like the scoring done in the mid 80's, early 90's with mid voicings screaming away....mid voices are the purest tone, decibel wise, intercepted and translated by human ears. would the Dev's "goodbye yesterday", smith's "midnight in miami" or madison's "malaguena" be the same without its mellophone voicing?...yes, i know the dev's marched MFL horns back then...but its one or the other....you dont need 3 different instruments to make up one voicing....besides, marching french horns are very user-unfriendly compared to the mellophone with virtually the same sound.

Well we will have to agree to disagree about the quality of mixed alto/tenor brass sections. To me the difference in tone colour of the lines is obvious. Today's mellophone players do play with great skill and musicianship and I have no doubt that the instruments have improved significantly even from the early '80s however mellophones don't bring the same colours to the brass lines that the flugels, altos, french horns and those tenor horn things, used briefly in the 80s, and mellophone, combined do.

It's a matter of taste I guess.

I agree that in the case of the French Horn there are challenges in regards to the embouchure and high speed drill manuevers.

Your comments about strings and woodwinds seem like a troll to me, especially when posted on this forum. :P Let's stay away from that for the moment.

[idontwan2know]

I think the main reasons for the all mellophone mid-voice are mainly practical ones, rather than aural.

1) The french horn mouthpiece and embochure don't stand up well to a lot of movement.

2) Intonation and uniform sound is easier if the whole section is on one horn.

3) Ability to transfer players between lower sop and mellophone parts. Yes, I know it's not the same instrument and the transition is not a breeze, but it's certainly easy compared to switching someone from sop to french horn. This is also a factor because if you go to a junior corps audition these days, you'll find that probably half the brass auditionees are trumpet players. Having an instrument that some of them can adapt to lets you get the best overall players on the field, rather than cutting good trumpet players in favor of weaker hornists(if you can even find any).

Personally, I think the days of the french horn are long gone and aren't coming back. However, there is a resurgence in interest in other alto voices, especially flugels. For a traditional corps playing classical, broadway, concert band literature, etc. I love a 50/50 split of altos and mellophones with the upper parts on altos.

One of the big limitations of the mellophone is that it has a very narrow range where it has the distinctive mellophone sound and where it is controllable by most players. Anything above a G on top of the staff on a mellophone tends to sound either very unpleasant or almost indistinguishable from the soprano voice, depending on the player. Altos and flugels both extend the usable range up quite a bit, which allows for some neat sounds. This also allows the mellophones to stick in their comfortable and good sounding range, and helps alleviate the need to have the first bari part doubling them in many instances.

Obviously for a more jazz oriented sound, flugels would serve in the place of altos.

[Shadow_7]

A bit more on topic, does anyone remember the Getzen "Concert Model" french horn? It was produced prior to the factory fire. The bell on that thing was so thin, it would bend if you looked at it wrong. Nice sounding horn, but not built for the road.

A lot of concert horns share that trait. The bells are normally thin enough that you can see your fingernail move along the inside from the other side of the bell. It's actually a trait that is sought after in a jazz trombone, as well as a concert french horn. But it is not too road, field, or marching friendly.