Why all Mellophones?

[G-horns]

A lot of concert horns share that trait. The bells are normally thin enough that you can see your fingernail move along the inside from the other side of the bell. It's actually a trait that is sought after in a jazz trombone, as well as a concert french horn. But it is not too road, field, or marching friendly.

I guess I wasn't quite clear enough in describing the Getzen "Concert Model". It was a french horn bugle, bell front, long wrap, G-D with slip-slide or rotor.

[johnric]

Bridgemen marched FH's as late as 1983

we had sops, flugels, mellos, FH, bari, and contra as a standard line.

[Shadow_7]

I guess I wasn't quite clear enough in describing the Getzen "Concert Model". It was a french horn bugle, bell front, long wrap, G-D with slip-slide or rotor.

And this one time in band camp... We had some Bach marching baritones. They had some pretty thin bells. I saw more than one of those get crunched bells when someone wasn't looking where they were walking. As I watch soprano players put their horns down in tall grass when the guard is still on the field rehearsing. The other thing about the bachs was that if you washed them in warm water, the lacquer would flake off in large chunks. The water didn't even have to be that warm either.

Was that horn a chrome model? I saw a King 2 valve chrome Euph bounce on it's bell a couple times, didn't even put a crink in it. I can't seem to see my fingernail through the K-60 or my Kanstul 3 valve silver Euph in G. Which is a good thing, it'd probably have an inverted bell by now if you could. The K-60 does have a minor crink, as the previous owner kept it on a table and had cats.

[G-horns]

Was that horn a chrome model? I saw a King 2 valve chrome Euph bounce on it's bell a couple times, didn't even put a crink in it. I can't seem to see my fingernail through the K-60 or my Kanstul 3 valve silver Euph in G. Which is a good thing, it'd probably have an inverted bell by now if you could. The K-60 does have a minor crink, as the previous owner kept it on a table and had cats.

All Getzen bugles were available in chrome or lacquer finish. From what I understand, in order to chrome plate on brass, you have to nickel plate first then do the chrome, otherwise the chrome won't bond. I remember someone saying that the process makes the brass base metal brittle, but I'm wayyyy not a metalurgist. IMO, the toughtest part of designing a marching brass instrument is getting a reasonable compromise between sound, playability and durability. You can pick two, but getting all three is just about impossible.

[DaKman]

Well we will have to agree to disagree about the quality of mixed alto/tenor brass sections. To me the difference in tone colour of the lines is obvious. Today's mellophone players do play with great skill and musicianship and I have no doubt that the instruments have improved significantly even from the early '80s however mellophones don't bring the same colours to the brass lines that the flugels, altos, french horns and those tenor horn things, used briefly in the 80s, and mellophone, combined do.

It's a matter of taste I guess.

I agree that in the case of the French Horn there are challenges in regards to the embouchure and high speed drill manuevers.

Your comments about strings and woodwinds seem like a troll to me, especially when posted on this forum. :P Let's stay away from that for the moment.

re-read the post...no one is trolling...basically i was clearing up "voicings", comparing the traditional voicings of western music (upper voicing (soprano-violin-trumpets-flutes-clairnets-sop/alto saxes-guitar-snare drums) upper-mid voicing (alto-viola-fr horns/mellophones/flugels-clarinets-alto/tenor saxes-multi tenors) lower mid voicing (baritone-cello-trombones/baritones/euphoniums-tenor saxes-marching bass drums) low voicings (bass-contrabass-tuba-bari sax-bass clarinet-timpani-bass guitar-marching bass drums)

this is the classical 4 voice set up that applies to most classical-jazz music. My point was to simplify the instrument responsible for the mid range voicings...on the field with full ensemble, one would not hear the difference between these...perhaps in more melodic, slower arrangements where upper brass, percussion are seldom playing, one could hear the nuance of instrument differential.

[ambassadorhorn]

re-read the post...no one is trolling...

My apologies.

I still disagree about hearing the difference in the lines; I can hear it. I'm not sure simple is better in this case.

[DaKman]

My apologies.

I still disagree about hearing the difference in the lines; I can hear it. I'm not sure simple is better in this case.

no reason to apologize, you probably have better ears...i spent too much time in the battery percussion with 9 other snares in my ear, and if that werent bad enough, i went on to be an instructor...too many full ensemble impacts with gongs, china cymbals has probably left my "almost perfect pitch" empty...I would like to sit next to someone such as yourself to have them show me the differences, what to listen for, etc. Hey Im all for warmth and round tones and I simply love mid voicings (violas, saxes, french horns, etc.)...if you had a corps with 12 to 14 spots open for mids, what would you field and how? would you use 6 flugels for 1rst parts or what? Im curious.

[Shadow_7]

if you had a corps with 12 to 14 spots open for mids, what would you field and how? would you use 6 flugels for 1rst parts or what? Im curious.

for 14 spots, 8 frenchies, 6 mellos. Maybe 9/5, depending on the french horn in use. Those old BU-10 longhorns are supposed to be pretty loud relative to the short stubby's of todays horns.

Of course that many altos assumes a rather large horn line to start with.

24 soprano

14 alto

18 tenor

10 bass

(66 horns?)

Note: number of sops is more of convenience, they tire easy.

As far as the hearing thing, pretty much the same here. The quirk of being in the Army Band is that some ceremonies include the use of explosives. Do one or more of those a week and after three years, you become quite sensitive to loud noises. The Ranger graduations were excessively brutal given the amount of and closeness of explosives to the performing unit. Of course in the usual band fashion, no one bothers telling the newbies of this until afterwards. Especially if they're in the front rank. And then there's the 4th of July when you do the 1812 with artillery cannons. And in the usual military way, quite anal about knowing exactly how many shells to use as the blanks are some $40.00 a pop.

[G-horns]

Im all for warmth and round tones and I simply love mid voicings (violas, saxes, french horns, etc.)...if you had a corps with 12 to 14 spots open for mids, what would you field and how? would you use 6 flugels for 1rst parts or what? Im curious.

IMO, allocation of spots is more a matter of what genre of music the ensemble is performing. I might opt for 12 spots covered by 3 mellos and 9 frenchies split 4/5 for symphonic works; 4 flugels, 4 mellos and 4 frenchies for big band jazz; and 6 mellos, 6 frenchies for some other music. The breakdown also depends on the size and strength of the baritone line.

[DaKman]

for 14 spots, 8 frenchies, 6 mellos. Maybe 9/5, depending on the french horn in use. Those old BU-10 longhorns are supposed to be pretty loud relative to the short stubby's of todays horns.

Of course that many altos assumes a rather large horn line to start with.

24 soprano

14 alto

18 tenor

10 bass

(66 horns?)

Note: number of sops is more of convenience, they tire easy.

As far as the hearing thing, pretty much the same here. The quirk of being in the Army Band is that some ceremonies include the use of explosives. Do one or more of those a week and after three years, you become quite sensitive to loud noises. The Ranger graduations were excessively brutal given the amount of and closeness of explosives to the performing unit. Of course in the usual band fashion, no one bothers telling the newbies of this until afterwards. Especially if they're in the front rank. And then there's the 4th of July when you do the 1812 with artillery cannons. And in the usual military way, quite anal about knowing exactly how many shells to use as the blanks are some $40.00 a pop.

that is a very strange combo...unbalanced...a good rule of thumb is to have as many baritones/euphoniums as sopranos (trumpets)...typcial set up:

Trumpets/sopranos=24

Mellophones=14

baritones=16

Euphoniums=8

Tuba/Contrabass=12

the high brass being top heavy is way unbalanced...the depth and volume come from mid to low brass.