arrangerx Posted August 4, 2005 Share Posted August 4, 2005 Wow! I'm a little dissapointed that it took this long. The last two years, the anti-PC crowd came out within the first 3 or 4 posts.A question... Seeing as you're an arranger for some of these corps that might get taken out, is this why you have a problem with PC? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Good Lord. . . do you think you're talking to a rookie? Do you think I seriously care about the competitive status of Pacific Crest? Why don't you ask the PC staff members in the room at the DCI Instructors convention in Orlando this past season who was the only person in the room to try and address their concerns about staff development. Pacific Crest will crush the Troopers this year. . . of that I've little doubt. And I couldn't be less interested in the result. The point is, either the rules of DCI Membership apply to ALL. . . or NONE. Which is the more positive result? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skajerk Posted August 4, 2005 Share Posted August 4, 2005 (edited) But would you rather lose more corps because of bad money management a la VK, Bridgemen, Kingsmen, Freelancers, 2-7 and too many more to mention? Or... Would you rather have more corps staying afloat because they are managing themselves responsibly? This is the same argument every freakin' year! Call me crazy, but I'd sure love to have have VK, Bridgemen, Kingsmen, Freelancers, 2-7 around and if this solves the problem, I'm all for it. Edited August 4, 2005 by skajerk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crest99 Posted August 4, 2005 Share Posted August 4, 2005 (edited) Removed. Edited August 4, 2005 by crest99 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc66 Posted August 4, 2005 Share Posted August 4, 2005 Gee...I guess the roughly 3-4000 people at Corps at the Crest (PC's home show) isn't good enough. I guess the 4hours nightly and 12 hours on Saturdays that the corps is rehearsing isn't good enough. I guess the fact that they haven't had judges commentary since mid-July and will be at a disadvantage going into Allentown and Championships week isn't good enough. Forgive the bluntness, but... GET OFF THEIR BACK! PC's kids are working as hard, if not harder. They are doing multiple duty: Job/Work + rehearsing. They are sweating as hard, albeit in a different way. They deserve the same rewards and heartaches "touring" corps get. Are they getting the same experiences as full-touring corps? No Are they getting a great drum corps experience? Yes Are they introducing new fans to the activity? Definitely PC is doing things a bit differently, but still providing a quality product and a quality organization. AND, they are a drum corps deserving of praise, not your pathetic scorn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wunderlich Posted August 4, 2005 Share Posted August 4, 2005 I wish that someone would jump all over Esperanza, just so they get some press, no matter if it's bad and not deserved one bit. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hey, Man...stop it!! Keep us out of this! :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arrangerx Posted August 4, 2005 Share Posted August 4, 2005 Ok...depends on your definition of tour.Not including finals... Pacific Crest does 14 shows. Mandarins (full touring I guess) does 19. They also appear to have a good product. And how is what you suggest fair? Say PC is only better than the worst corps in DIV 1...for argument sake, we will say that is the Blue Devils. But because the Blue Devils tour, and PC does a limited tour, BD gets 23rd place instead of 24th? So...now PC's kids and staff knows they deserved 23rd, and the Blue Devils get a place up above, even though they don't deserve it, and the kids will know it is not deserved. I guess that is fair to you. If you can't beat 'em...then put on restrictions that will put money in other places so that the product is not as good. As for your question...What if every corps from PC down didn't have to do a full tour...ok... Then they get to spend more money on staff and not fuel. Thus creating a better product. Then they get more fans of people supporting a corps that has started to move up. Then you sell more merchandise. Then you reinvest it in staff, not tour. Then you keep moving up. Then you tour more...I think a group in the lower bracket should try it and see what happens. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> My take: Do the full tour, and gain the full benefits of membership. Your argument seems to revolve around your support for the competitive success of Pacific Crest, and not to the argument about what is good for the entire activity. If we all take PC's approach, how much LESS exposure will drum corps have? Tell me. . . how many fans did PC make in San Antonio? Indianapolis? Lots of opportunities to make fans and sell souvies. . . which, by your argument, means more money for staff (a fallacy by the way) and better competitive success. Circular argument. Point is still: Equal benefits for equal work. Mandarins and Esperanza did the work this year. Good for them! We need more corps out on the road. I whole-heartedly stand behind PC's method of doing drum corps. I do NOT support DCI's hit-and-miss policy regarding touring corps responsibilities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skajerk Posted August 4, 2005 Share Posted August 4, 2005 Uh oh. Now you've done it! Nobody pisses off Marc. Go get 'em, buddy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arrangerx Posted August 4, 2005 Share Posted August 4, 2005 Maybe in addition to Bb and amps, we could just place a big Swatch odometer on the field, displaying how many miles a corps has traveled. At the end of the show they could divide the number of miles by 2500 and add that to the final score. Competition in DCI should be about what's on the sheets. Currently, that does not include effort, number of sprained ankles sustained, miles traveled, or number of burritos served. You can provide any kind of poorly conceived rationale you'd like for excluding PC on the basis of their organizational structure. But at the end of the day, if I was in a corps that beat PC--and had only beat them because we spent more time on a bus--that wouldn't give me any warm fuzzies. Beat them on the field. Chris <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Again. . . I am not referring to the competitive aspect (aka: numbers, placements, etc.) I am against the DCI policy of the opportunity for PC to knock other "touring" corps out of the pay scale they've earned by fulfilling their responsibilities as touring corps. They did it in 2003, didn't do it last year, and may or may not do it in 2005. Here is the solution: 1) Do not allow placement to affect pay scale the following season. 2) Compensate corps based on real costs, instead of placement. Do that, and I don't care if Pacific Crest stays home all summer, and goes to DCI and wins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc66 Posted August 4, 2005 Share Posted August 4, 2005 You are operating under the mistaken notion that, because PC is a regional, non-fully touring corps, that everyone else is going to collectively smack their foreheads and proclaim their desire to cease full tours and suddenly decide to go regional. There has been no such idea even remotely discussed (and, believe me, if it had been, there'd be post after post about it around here). PC is not going to be the destruction of the activity. That you are here with a "sky is falling" opinion doesn't serve, either the activity you are trying to protect, nor the fans you are trying to shield. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueorginal Posted August 4, 2005 Share Posted August 4, 2005 Seems in all the hoopla people forget that up until the late 80s most drumcorps did just do regional touring until finals.....rarely did a east corps go west or vice versa, and lord help any midwest corps that ventured to the east coast before finals..... Should full touring corps have more benefits over regional I would say they already do have an advantage of performing (earning more $$$) more cause they are touring on a full scale....and since thats what in the long run corps need then they got it...... what happens if a regional corps finishes 4th at finals.....force them to full tour or strip them of their placement.....common sense people and sheesh lets just enjoy the shows, entertainment and the kids who are performing for us.....because thats what its really about Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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