Is the DCI 2005 Champion a foregone conclusion?

[greggmanX-Kingsmen]

I bring the topic up because I miss the tic system. With the tic system, almost anybody could win on any night if they were only separated by a point or two coming into any show. I offer as an example the difference in placement between prelims and finals in 1972 and 1974.

Can’t DCI do a combination of a “build up” system AND “tic” system? It would provide more drama/suspense at finals in my opinion.

(Disclaimer: I’m an old Anaheim Kingsmen who hasn’t been interested in Drum Corps since the mid 70’s. Only the recent D.C.I. countdown movie has reawakened my interest)

[ssorrell]

First...welcome back to the activity!

Second, how could anyone even suggest that the championship is the Cadets' to lose? They've only beat the Cavies ONCE this season and by an ultra thin margin.

I'd say it's either the Cadets OR the Cavies to lose. That seems to be a lock, but who knows?

[naatd_alum]

First...welcome back to the activity!

Second, how could anyone even suggest that the championship is the Cadets' to lose?  They've only beat the Cavies ONCE this season and by an ultra thin margin.

I'd say it's either the Cadets OR the Cavies to lose.  That seems to be a lock, but who knows?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Personally, I believe that it is Regiment's to win.

[glory]

Why is that sort of volatility desirable? To me, it says only the contest will be decided more by the whim of the judges than by the excellence on the field. I'd rather take my chances with the judges rewarding achievement because it's more likely that excellence will be acknowledged. Being the least wrong not only doesn't inspire greatness, it's no guarantee that the best will be the champion.

HH

[greggmanX-Kingsmen]

Why is that sort of volatility desirable? To me, it says only the contest will be decided more by the whim of the judges than by the excellence on the field. I'd rather take my chances with the judges rewarding achievement because it's more likely that excellence will be acknowledged. Being the least wrong not only doesn't inspire greatness, it's no guarantee that the best will be the champion.

HH

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The build up system isn’t based on the “whim of a judge”? Isn’t the build up system totally subjective, even more so than the tic system? At least with the tic system you know a dropped piece of equipment, or an obvious spacing error, will cost you a tenth of a point for each occurrence.

I’d like to see a combination of both “build up” and “tic” used. As an old timer, drum corps shows today are more imaginative but also “dirtier” at the same time (especially snare lines in general, good Lord!)

What do you want? More imaginative “dirty” shows, or cleaner (tic free) boring shows? I’d like to see something in the middle because the pendulum has swung too far in the first direction.

Clean is beautiful and so is "being the least wrong" Excecution should be rewarded at least as much as imagination.

[glory]

Both are subjective. The difference is where you apply the subjectivity. In the cases of tics, subjectivity is applied to mistakes. With buildup, subjectivity is applied to achievement.

(And before someone says there's nothing subjective about recognizing a drop, think instead about applying tics to moving forms, musical and marching technique and performance and the many other such elements of a drum corp show. Those are far more abundant and much less simple to designate as correct or not at any given moment.)

Sure, build up is also at the whim of a judge. But as I said, it's preferred because it rewards excellence (not imagination as you say). And it's excellence we're after.

HH

Edited August 2, 2005 by glory

[greggmanX-Kingsmen]

Both are subjective. The difference is where you apply the subjectivity. In the cases of tics, subjectivity is applied to mistakes. With buildup, subjectivity is applied to achievement.

(And before someone says there's nothing subjective about recognizing a drop, think instead about applying tics to moving forms, musical and marching technique and performance and the many other such elements of a drum corp show. Those are far more abundant and much less simple to designate as correct or not at any given moment.)

Sure, build up is also at the whim of a judge. But as I said, it's prefered because it rewards excellence (not imagination as you say). And it's excellence we're after.

HH

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not "tic-ing" IS excellence. Perhaps this is a generational argument.

[Long Time Fan]

Just keep in mind that the Cadets were undefeated and untied in 2000 until finals when they were caught by the Cavaliers. It is not over until the pit and drum line sing. :P

[Tsar Nikk]

Why is that sort of volatility desirable? To me, it says only the contest will be decided more by the whim of the judges than by the excellence on the field. I'd rather take my chances with the judges rewarding achievement because it's more likely that excellence will be acknowledged. Being the least wrong not only doesn't inspire greatness, it's no guarantee that the best will be the champion.

HH

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

But it is human beings who rate that excellence...and we are fallible because of our own biases.

If I were to ###### your 1996 self, bring you to 2005 and sit you down in front of a practice session with the top 5 corps, and did not identify any of them for you, can you honestly say that your results would follow the "whims" of the judges?

I don't see why it is a foregone conclusion that Regiment, Madison, or Devils are "second-rate" citizens to Cavaliers and Cadets this year. The only reason that it is happening is because of trends. I'm not so sure it would be possible to get a completely objective view at this point...unless Finals judges had been sequestered all summer long.

Frankly, I think Regiment has the hardest horn book I've heard this year, but I know I am in the minority with this opinion, and that -much like Capitol Hill- everyone tends to vote down party lines.

[glory]

Don't assume that everyone of the "older" generation wants things the way they were. I got my first taste in 1973, and I much prefer today to yesterday.

No tics only the describes the absence of mistakes. The rest may or may not be excellent.

HH