Cavie Drum Solo

[KeithHall]

was played in mid 70's....who wrote it and where was it from?

Anyone?

[Paul Milano]

"Chump Change" was written by (honest to God!) Bill Cosby and Quincy Jones. Cavies played it in 1976. Originally it was slated to be the "out-of-concert" number, just prior to the closer. The rest of the "original" show line-up was Russian Sailor's Dance as the opener, a drum solo of Vienize Musical Clock (from the Hary Janus Suite) with full horn accompianment, into concert (Give It One), followed by Chump Change, a drum solo, and then the Firebird Suite for the closer.

Unfortunately, the program director's wife (both shall remain nameless, lest any Cavaliers from that era want to hunt them down and kill them!) was watching TV and saw the old movie "Zorba the Greek." She convinced her husband that it would be a great song for the Cavies to play, complete with the rifle line dancing like greek sailors with hankies in their hands! Ugh . . .

So, Chump Change became the second tune, and musical clock became a shortened drum solo before the closer (preceeded by Zorba). At one of the very first shows of the year, Gus "Cosmo" Barbaro, our favorite drum judge, asked us during critique how long we were betting each other before Zorba was axed!

It was eventually replaced with "Bess You Is My Woman" from Porgy and Bess. To this day, most of us who were on staff that year believe firmly that if the original show design had been kept, we would have been third or fourth that year (instead of seventh).

The brass arrangement for Chump Change was done by Cliff Colnut, a jazz conductor at Northwestern University with little or no prior drum corps arranging experience. He did the whole show that year. Fastest (good) arranger I've ever seen. Dan Spalding did all the drum charts. Steve Buglino did the drill (when he wasn't high . . .).

Buglino actually designed one part of the drill around the record album cover from Brain Salad Surgery (Emerson, Lake, and Palmer). It had nothing to do with the music we were playing. He just liked it. He also showed us, toward the end of the season, how during the Firebird drill, a group of marching members (cymbal line, I think), walked down the throat of a bird and came out it's a s s. He thought it was funny. Again, it had nothing to do with helping to convey what was going on musically.

I think he's a Republican Senator these days . . . :P

[sarnia sam]

"Chump Change" was written by (honest to God!) Bill Cosby and Quincy Jones.  Cavies played it in 1976.  Originally it was slated to be the "out-of-concert" number, just prior to the closer.  The rest of the "original" show line-up was Russian Sailor's Dance as the opener, a drum solo of Vienize Musical Clock (from the Hary Janus Suite) with full horn accompianment, into concert (Give It One), followed by Chump Change, a drum solo, and then the Firebird Suite for the closer. 

Unfortunately, the program director's wife (both shall remain nameless, lest any Cavaliers from that era want to hunt them down and kill them!) was watching TV and saw the old movie "Zorba the Greek."  She convinced her husband that it would be a great song for the Cavies to play, complete with the rifle line dancing like greek sailors with hankies in their hands!  Ugh . . .

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You know, I read Keith's post this morning and didn't have time to write in and say Chump Change wasn't the drum solo. I liked that tune.

I was in Michigan City for the show that year. Seats at the top of the grand stand. Phantom is on the field and all I could do was look out back to the parking lot as Cavies approached the stadium with their new uniforms.

I don't remember Zorba, but more trivia, my ex-brother-in-law was one of those rifles waving the hanky. He still dances like a Greek sailor though.

Program directors wife? Sounds like a Spinal Tap to me. Gotta keep the spouses well away from the design meetings.

Regards,

John Swartz

Edited August 31, 2005 by sarnia sam

[vferrera]

To this day, most of us who were on staff that year believe firmly that if the original show design had been kept, we would have been third or fourth that year (instead of seventh). 

Dear Paul,

I really enjoyed your post, BUT (and I say this with all due respect)...

It amazes me how many people associated with the Cavaliers during that era still think that their competitive woes were mainly due to programming. Especially musical programming.

I have a different perspective since I marched in Cavaliers in 1977 (8th place) and Madison in 1978 (4th place). Now, I'll grant you that '77 Cavaliers was not even one of the better Cavalier shows of that period. But was that the difference? No, I believe it was not. Madison '78 was also not one of their best efforts, musically speaking.

If you want to know why Madison (as well as many other corps) was consistently better than Cavaliers during that time, the main factor, IMO, was this: PRACTICE TIME.

Given the amount of practice time we got in the Cavaliers, I'm surprised we even made finals. Madison practiced at least TWICE as many hours per day as Cavies. Where did we find the time? Simple - we slept on the busses as we went from show to show. That left all day to practice. All the other top corps did the same thing.

I still don't know why it took the Cavaliers so long to catch on. I know that at least one person on their staff had it figured out by '77. ;)

So, you might think that some musical changes would have improved things in 76. I respectfully disagree. Look at the corps that beat you. They marched better. They bugled better. They drummed better. It's as simple as that. The Green Machine of the 70s needed an engine overhaul, not a paint job.

In all the years I have been observing drum corps, I have come up with one rule that I think has held up over time: Execution trumps all. The top executing corps in the country will always be in the top 3 at Finals. More often than not, they will be the champion. It doesn't matter what they play. If they have a really terrible show design, they might be 4th. I think the past season is a perfect example.

Anyway, I just wanted to get that off my chest. Sorry for derailing the topic.

[KeithHall]

I was confused......What was the drum solo that went "dum da dee da dee dee dum" on the xylophone? I guess I didn't know the name of the percussion feature. "Chump Change" was a tune on a game show right?

The drum solo I was talking about was the best and I believe a chromatic run up at the end. Anyone?

[Spenser7]

I was confused......What was the drum solo that went "dum da dee da dee dee dum" on the xylophone?  I guess I didn't know the name of the percussion feature.  "Chump Change" was a tune on a game show right?

The drum solo I was talking about was the best and I believe a chromatic run up at the end.  Anyone?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Keith - Unfortunately I don't know what the tune is called either, but from your "Dum da dee da dee dee dum" quote I know what you're talking about! I've often wondered where it came from too. I stole it for my HS marching band the following fall. The hooks are really catchy.

[JimF-LowBari]

Chump Change was also played by the Erie Thunderbirds in the late 70s...

Also caught Doc Seversons band (Johnny Carson Show kiddies ^0^ ) jam it out one night around the same time.

[Eggbert]

Chump Change was also played by the Erie Thunderbirds in the late 70s...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

True, but most T-Birds will deny it! We ended up playing it on KAZOOS.

It was originally for the Bill Cosby show. I guess it worked for TV but didn't cut it at all on the field.

[Paul Milano]

Keith - Unfortunately I don't know what the tune is called either, but from your "Dum da dee da dee dee dum" quote I know what you're talking about!  I've often wondered where it came from too.  I stole it for my HS marching band the following fall.  The hooks are really catchy.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The drum solo you're refering to was first played in 1974 and again (a bit faster) in 1975. It was also written by Dan Spalding (a brilliant drum arranger and now a world renown orchestra conductor - http://www.philadelphiavirtuosi.com). It had no name when we played it, but I've heard that it has been retroactively given some catchy name over the years.

I'm no musician (just a drummer!) but I recall an interview with Dan who said it was all built around some ostinato (does that make sense?). It was played in 1974 by the one and only Sam Flores. The battery parts were rather simple, rudimentally, but they were almost all played one-handed which made them pretty tough. We loved that solo - and the reaction it always got from the crowd with the single note "ding" from the glock at the very end.

[Paul Milano]

Dear Paul,

I really enjoyed your post, BUT (and I say this with all due respect)...

It amazes me how many people associated with the Cavaliers during that era still think that their competitive woes were mainly due to programming.  Especially musical programming.

I have a different perspective since I marched in Cavaliers in 1977 (8th place) and Madison in 1978 (4th place).  Now, I'll grant you that '77 Cavaliers was not even one of the better Cavalier shows of that period.  But was that the difference?  No, I believe it was not.  Madison '78 was also not one of their best efforts, musically speaking.

If you want to know why Madison (as well as many other corps) was consistently better than Cavaliers during that time, the main factor, IMO, was this: PRACTICE TIME.

Given the amount of practice time we got in the Cavaliers, I'm surprised we even made finals.  Madison practiced at least TWICE as many hours per day as Cavies.  Where did we find the time?  Simple - we slept on the busses as we went from show to show.  That left all day to practice.  All the other top corps did the same thing.

I still don't know why it took the Cavaliers so long to catch on.  I know that at least one person on their staff had it figured out by '77. ;)

So, you might think that some musical changes would have improved things in 76.  I respectfully disagree.  Look at the corps that beat you.  They marched better.  They bugled better.  They drummed better.  It's as simple as that.  The Green Machine of the 70s needed an engine overhaul, not a paint job.

In all the years I have been observing drum corps, I have come up with one rule that I think has held up over time: Execution trumps all.  The top executing corps in the country will always be in the top 3 at Finals.  More often than not, they will be the champion.  It doesn't matter what they play.  If they have a really terrible show design, they might be 4th.  I think the past season is a perfect example.

Anyway, I just wanted to get that off my chest.  Sorry for derailing the topic.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Vince,

You and I both know that you have valid reasons for feeling a bit "defensive" about some of my comments, which is what I think you might be feeling. But, your contention that the Cavaliers of that era were loosing due primarily to performance issues, not programming issues, is, with all due respect, off-the-mark to varying degrees. We won virtually all execution captions in 1972 during the first half of the season, and were regularly CRUSHED by the winning corps, scorewise - due to programming.

In 1973 we just flat-out stunk, performance-wise, but our program was also awful.

In 1974, we had an average program, and pretty decent performance, for an overall average corps.

1975 we had better programming and better performance and started to move up the ranks. But, we placed about where we should have.

1976, we had a great deal of talent in all captions. We were second in drums during prelims, horns were good that year, and we marched well. We did not recover from the need to dump Zorba mid-season. We would have been several spots higher if we had kept the original program. I was on staff. We were told that repeatedly in critiques. And we knew it ourselves anyway.

1977 was an average program, with less talent in the corps ranks - except for the very talented hornline.

1978 was bad on almost all fronts.

Etc., etc.

The Cavaliers in the "Dark Years" (as we not so affectionately call them - 1971/1983) were a mix of reasonably talented members, but never all sections at once. That hurt us more than anything. Program was very often poor, however, no matter what the talent level of the corps each year.

We recycled the same half-dozen songs in the 60's, back when execution was virtually the ONLY game in town, and thus the "Green Machine" was able to win consistently. Even then the programming was not steller. We typically won on the strength of the marching and the drums. Horns were always average or just a bit better than average.

The reason the Cavaliers didn't practice as much as the other corps in the mid-70s was simple. We were all blue collar street kids who had jobs or summer school so we didn't tour extensively or practice more than a few hours a week during the summer. We did not become a "modern" touring corps until long after most others had accepted the new paradigm that was essentially forced upon the activity by the west coast corps (and Troopers) who had no choice but to tour in order to have competition. Less practice time caught up to us. Just as the lack of sophistication in our programming caught up to us (since we couldn't have more sophisticated shows, since we couldn't practice enough and since we didn't have middle class surburban band kids who could take the whole summer off instead of working a part-time job).

Our founder tried to keep us a neighborhood corps when that kind of corps was no longer viable in the "new" activity.

As I've said before, DCI did not "kill" all the hundreds of drum corps that existed in the 60's. Having to tour all summer in order to get the same number of practice hours and competitions as the west coast corps were getting - that's what killed hundreds of corps. If everyone had continued to compete within their own region until the last two weeks of the season, there might still be many, many drum corps around. But that wasn't possible, and the activity changed (and I still like the activity today - it just changed, that's all).

And by the way, today's corps do NOT win based on who has the best execution. Cavies will be the first to tell you that they never really fully cleaned their marching these last few years when they were winning. A lot of the champions of the past ten years won because they had the best designed shows on the field, performed at high rates of competence, but not the MOST competent. Winning on the strength of execution left the activity long before even the tic system was eliminated. To think otherwise is very odd.

You are right about this past season rewarding execution, first and foremost, with the championship. I've spoken to several judges who judged the top corps late in the season, and even during finals week. Cadets' show design almost did them in, had it not been for the clear superiority of the marching members this year.

As an old-timer/purist, part of me would rather see the kids on the field determine who wins, more than the show design. On the other hand, as much as I enjoyed watching Cadets PERFORM their show this year, I personally hope show design gets looked at more critically in the future. I went to Catholic schools for 12 years. I was hoping to never see those uniforms on teen-age girls again!! :P