drumcat Posted October 7, 2005 Share Posted October 7, 2005 I marched in a D2 corps that didn't make D2 Finals. I marched in a D1 Finalist. I'm aware of the competitive differences, and I also find it interesting in the other D1qf vs. D2f poll is dead even. I know the basic premise for D2. It's a financially beneficial division if you've just started. You get paid less, but you're not under agreement to compete in a minimum of shows/regionals/finals, etc. You don't have to have a national tour. You also get to compete in the second tier of corps, and under slightly different sheets that emphasize clarity and entertainment value. In addition, your corps does not have as much scrutiny financially by DCI. Also, DCI runs the D2(and 3) circuits at a loss. The division on its own isn't self-supporting, and isn't intended to be; it's a platform for promotion and growing corps. Thus the question: What is the benefit of staying at Division 2 for a corps? I understand the rationale for DCI starting corps there, and that the application process is tighter now. But to me, staying in D2 doesn't make sense. (I just refrained from a trashy analogy...) Can you guys enlighten me on what reasons there are to stay, indefinitely, at the D2 level for a corps? -Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penguin Posted October 7, 2005 Share Posted October 7, 2005 (edited) Money. DII costs less than DI in most if not all cases. Time. People might not be able to or not want to be away for three months all summer. Or, perhaps, they just like the experience. They say that you get to know people a whole lot better in Div. II and III corps. Maybe people prefer that atmosphere. I know, from my experience, that I am close with almost everyone I've marched with in my 4 seasons... many are almost as close as family. I'm sure there are many other reasons as well. Edited October 7, 2005 by Penguin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drumcat Posted October 7, 2005 Author Share Posted October 7, 2005 I think you missed my point a little, Penguin. I can see the $ factor for a corps, but MM time isn't what I'm thinking about. Tell me why a corps would perpetually stay D2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudes Posted October 7, 2005 Share Posted October 7, 2005 (edited) .. Edited January 15, 2007 by dudes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vaguardguy Posted October 7, 2005 Share Posted October 7, 2005 (edited) I believe your question was answered a little in your "Reasons to Eliminate DivII" thread a while back, but I'll gladly give you a few reasons why a corps' administration my choose to indefinitely remain in DivII. *The most obvious is to provide an alternative to DivI touring for its membership. Not all people can give up their entire summers to marching, and excluding this large subset of kids from the junior corps activity would be a travesty. Yes, this is more of a abstract, principled reason instead of a concrete, tangible reason; but it's equally valid. I marched in a very-competitive, weekend-only DivIII corps because I had to work 40hrs a week to pay for college. I held down a M-F, 8-5 job during the week, then went straight to drum corps for the weekend. This lasted from the first day of May until the third week of July for three years. I then got to quit my job, and by the time I came back from tour (2.5 weeks was just perfect for me), it was time to prepare to return to school (which I could now afford). I know there are DivII corps that also have rehearsal schedules that permit their membership to retain jobs through the summer. Corps with these lighter rehearsal schedules will never attain a DivI competitive level, and these corps in no way should be expected to compete against corps that are rehearsing every single day. *There are financial reasons to remaining in DivII. I don't know if you've been following the struggles of Atlantic Guardian (he posts occasionally on DCP and Soundmachine). He tried to start a DivIII drum corps in Maine, and after two years of fielding parade corps realised that the infrastructure of the region was as such that the most he could ever hope to attain was a small, DivIII corps. The financial resources of his region, whether it be the availability of arts grants, the individual wealth of potential membership, or the market for buying equipment and supplies, were too limited to sustain a top-level drum corps. I am certain with enough effort, his additional challenges (which are not faced to the same degree by corps in NJ, MA, IL, WI, or CA) could be overcame; but at the expense of time and effort he cannot afford to dedicate. *Corps directors have lives. Running a DivI corps is like a full-time job. Running a DivII/III corps is like a very, very, very work-intensive part-time job. Some corps directors might want to continue running corps, but are in no position to give up their lifestyle to dedicate the time and energy to get it to a DivI level. *I will contend that it is easier to recruit members as an upper-tier DivII corps than as a lower-tier DivI corps. From personal experience, I can tell you that people who've marched corps like Partriots, Spartans, and East Coast Jazz command more respect (and are usually more technically proficient) than people who marched corps like Pioneer, Troopers, or Kiwanis Kavaliers. I think people would rather shine on a smaller stage than be relegated to an extra on the large arena (and now in DivII, you have to be really bad to not make the Saturday show and get a medal around your neck). For a corps in a membership-strapped region, competitive success may be what keeps your corps from going under for lack of bodies. *A corps director might have some personal, principled reasons why they might not want to compete on the DivI stage. You can't fault them for wanting to provide a competitive youth activity, but have qualms about working that close with DCI. It's not like there are many alternatives left for competitive junior drum corps other than DCI (remember EMass, GSC, and others). DivII/III might be a better answer for them. I'm sure there are many more reasons, and if I come up with any I will post them. As for now, I am strapped for time and need to head out. Best wishes, Edit: minor grammatical/spelling errors Edited October 8, 2005 by vaguardguy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelloHorn13 Posted October 8, 2005 Share Posted October 8, 2005 Agreed with VaGuardGuy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Posted October 8, 2005 Share Posted October 8, 2005 (edited) I think you missed my point a little, Penguin. I can see the $ factor for a corps, but MM time isn't what I'm thinking about. Tell me why a corps would perpetually stay D2. money, time, organizational standards, and organization goals & mission statements. organi... what DCI has standards for how a division one corps opperates, and there are a few corps in D2/3 that simply do not have the resources to meet those standards. there's also the organization's mission statement. Their mission may not coodinate with what division 1 puts on the table. Best people to ask though are the corps/executive directors themselves. Send them an e-mail. You may get a reply with an answer. Edited October 8, 2005 by bari_benzo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhantomR Posted October 8, 2005 Share Posted October 8, 2005 Money. DII costs less than DI in most if not all cases. as much as I hate to say it, that's not true (anymore) I was looking at Teal Sound for this year as my first corps... I saw the price tag and it was $1350. That's alot of money for 2/3 of a full tour in division 2. Division 1 I could pay just as much OR LESS for a full tour, and division 1. sounds awful, but it's true. ~>conner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OC Euph Posted October 8, 2005 Share Posted October 8, 2005 as much as I hate to say it, that's not true (anymore)I was looking at Teal Sound for this year as my first corps... I saw the price tag and it was $1350. That's alot of money for 2/3 of a full tour in division 2. Division 1 I could pay just as much OR LESS for a full tour, and division 1. sounds awful, but it's true. ~>conner I think they mean the cost as a whole... like the ENTIRE price tag for the corps to run. (ie. gas, food, busses, trucks, that sorta thing) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Posted October 8, 2005 Share Posted October 8, 2005 I think they mean the cost as a whole... like the ENTIRE price tag for the corps to run. (ie. gas, food, busses, trucks, that sorta thing) I would think the same thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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