Pioneer

[MagicFlea]

I'm going to throw in my two bits... but I'll admit I have not read all 17 pages. First of all, I come from a corps with it's own image and design problems so I'm not trying to disparage in anyway way shape or form. I don't take offense when people bring my corps problems to light because it can only help make us stronger.

Here's the thing: an irish theme is ok... but that's all it is, there's nothing to the theme this year other than "it's kinda irish". I feel like you could literally slap this show concept on any show that pioneer has done in the past few years and no one would blink an eye. If at the end of the show, someone who has never seen the show concept says "I feel like I just went on a panoramic tour of Ireland" I will eat my words, but I feel like someone is far more likely to say "That was some nice irish sounding music". This is not a good thing!! Even if you are going to stay in a theme, you need room to manuever... sure phantom has a classical theme but Look at the shows of the past three years and each one had a distinctive feel, personality and themes. Not to mention that there is so much more to ireland than the st. patrick's day/clover leaf sort of thing that seems to be the recurring theme. Play some U2 or something for goodness sakes!

I wish the utmost success to pioneer this season

[Lancerlady]

Play some U2 or something for goodness sakes!

I wish the utmost success to pioneer this season

My husband said the same thing about playing some U2! I wouldn't mind seeing a drum corps do U2, Pioneer would be cool and keeping with their tradition! :) Since after all U2 is Irish! :P

[dmfootworks]

Anyway, to give you all a little history of Pioneer, Thunderbolts joined the Imperials of St. Patrick, so Imperials were more or less taking Thunderbolts under their wings. Then the corps became "The Thing" (with huge yellow jackets and all) and after a couple of years (maybe only one year) the name Pioneer was selected, thus their emblem being a shamrock with a lightning bolt through it. And with the new name they mostly went with the traditions of the Imperials of St. Patrick, thus the Irish music.

I once posted that I was a fan of The Thing in my signature on this board. That's partly because I have no drum corps marching experience but also because I was smitten with the quirky thing that was The Thing during their one year of existence under that name. They did not wear yellow jackets -- that was Pioneer (and actually, I believe it started out as The Pioneers). The Thing: the hastily arranged corps consisting of the St. Patrick's Imperials of Milwaukee and the Cedarburg Thunderboldts produced one of the great visual oddities of drumcorps history. St. Patricks retained their dark green, plaid Scottish kilt-style uniforms while the Thunderboldts had cadet-style uniforms of a sort of royal blue and red. Different sections of the corps wore one of these two different uniforms -- horns in the blue and red cadet style and drums in the dark green plaid kilt-style. So not only did the styles clash, but the colors didn't even come close to making a good match or even a good contrast. If anyone has photos this would be something special to see on this board. This look was basically the reason for the odd and contoversial name. In the early 70's ecclectisism was in vogue (witness progressive rock music from this era), so there was a faction that "dug" the name of the corps, while others associated with St. Patricks's or Cedarburg were aghast at it. It was controversial.

Actually I believe that while they were "the Thing" they didn't even play Irish music, someone that knows more may be able to clear that up for me, so that may be the exception of the irish of Pioneer.

They didn't play any Irish music from what I recall. What I expecially remember, with fondness, was a few bars of the Looney Tunes theme (I believe this was happenstance and not part of the "odd" corps concept), which was followed by a sensational drum feature. The Thing had some really talented snare drummers, including a guy that marched most of the summer with one of his legs in a cast. Just amazing. Especially memorable for me was seeing them ordered off the field midway through their show because of an approaching thunderstorm. The corps went into troop the stands mode and played the same drum feature off the field, which meant I got to hear it four times in one night because they returned later to march their show again -- and then, of course, troop the stands again.

So Pioneer isn't an "irish" kind of name, but the heritage, traditions and history of the corps is irish.

Pioneer is an Irish name: it was Pigh O'Near before they streamlined it to Pioneer . . . JK :P

Edited December 9, 2005 by dmfootworks

[dmfootworks]

Play some U2 or something for goodness sakes!

That "something" should be Thin Lizzy!

[leadsoplove]

Sorry, but I think the people representing Pioneer need to settle down a little bit. I tried to say this before, but I don't think you saw it. Stop taking things so personally. You won't win a fight on this board... Nobody ever wins. Eventually it will just die like every other convo to be replaced by something new. Besides, by calling another drum corps unclassy, how does that make you appear? If you truly want to represent the class and dignity that Pioneer holds, control yourself. This is a public forum, and we all have our own opinions. Don't expect everyone to agree with you, and don't take things as such a personal attack!!!

I didn't call the drum corps unclassy, I called him unclassy. And I'm sorry if I seem to have taken some of this personally, but I don't see a thread entitled "SCV- you need to stop sucking" or "Bluestars- I really hated your show last season" or "Glassmen- umm... I don't know about you because I slept through your show".

Everyone here backs up their "innocent criticisms" with the fact that all the other D1 corps get it. Well, considering the former part of this post, I don't think that all the other D1 corps get quite this amount of criticism so openly. At the very least not over a hundred pages worth and certainly not right to the face of the members who march there. Especially since there is absolutely NOTHING I or anyone else can do who reads this to impact the show decisions. For you ageouts, how would you feel if a corps that you marched started getting criticized for hundreds of pages over a lousy 2 or 3 seasons, when there is obviously nothing that can be done. Would you feel as though your hard work was appreciated, or would you feel disgusted? Disgust is a good description for how I feel about this thread. I don't expect everyone to agree with what Pioneer does, Lord knows that I don't, but like I said before, write a letter to someone who matters. Otherwise this is really just like a bunch of gossipy old women b******* about the people they work with.

I'm sincerely sorry if I am not more able to take it all with a smile, I guess I'll have to work on the whole meek, just take it, attitude. I have definitely had many conversations with people about what needs to be different at Pioneer, and this definitely does not sound at all like the "constructive criticism" that I have encountered and spoken myself. I suppose many of you who have not marched cannot comprehend the frustration and animosity that this topic inspires.

EDIT*

That Pigh O'Near thing did made me laugh... it's ironic because Roman definitely isn't Irish himself.

Edited December 9, 2005 by leadsoplove

[Dave]

Everyone here backs up their "innocent criticisms" with the fact that all the other D1 corps get it. Well, considering the former part of this post, I don't think that all the other D1 corps get quite this amount of criticism so openly.

That's a laugh. Have you read any of the other threads that have gone after other corps? This thread is nothing compared to them, and there is little to no hesitation on the part of a lot of folks to completely rip apart corps like Devils, Cadets, Cavaliers, Glassmen, Boston, even corps like that Southwind that aren't as far above Pioneer in ranking. When I see Pioneer accused of not being a drum corps anymore,l then we can talk about Pioneer being treated unfairly compared to other corps.

[MiamiSun76]

Roman definitely isn't Irish himself.

I just assumed he dropped the "O" in O'Blenski

:P

[chicasDiGArri411]

Haha...the Pigh O'Near thing made me laugh too.

As far as O'Blenski...nah. He's Polish, I believe. The "ski" at the end of the name kinda gives it away in my opinion. :P

[SCVsopAaron]

I didn't call the drum corps unclassy, I called him unclassy. And I'm sorry if I seem to have taken some of this personally, but I don't see a thread entitled "SCV- you need to stop sucking" or "Bluestars- I really hated your show last season" or "Glassmen- umm... I don't know about you because I slept through your show".

Everyone here backs up their "innocent criticisms" with the fact that all the other D1 corps get it. Well, considering the former part of this post, I don't think that all the other D1 corps get quite this amount of criticism so openly. At the very least not over a hundred pages worth and certainly not right to the face of the members who march there. Especially since there is absolutely NOTHING I or anyone else can do who reads this to impact the show decisions. For you ageouts, how would you feel if a corps that you marched started getting criticized for hundreds of pages over a lousy 2 or 3 seasons, when there is obviously nothing that can be done. Would you feel as though your hard work was appreciated, or would you feel disgusted? Disgust is a good description for how I feel about this thread. I don't expect everyone to agree with what Pioneer does, Lord knows that I don't, but like I said before, write a letter to someone who matters. Otherwise this is really just like a bunch of gossipy old women b******* about the people they work with.

I'm sincerely sorry if I am not more able to take it all with a smile, I guess I'll have to work on the whole meek, just take it, attitude. I have definitely had many conversations with people about what needs to be different at Pioneer, and this definitely does not sound at all like the "constructive criticism" that I have encountered and spoken myself. I suppose many of you who have not marched cannot comprehend the frustration and animosity that this topic inspires.

EDIT*

That Pigh O'Near thing did made me laugh... it's ironic because Roman definitely isn't Irish himself.

Welcome to DCP.

And when I marched in any other corps, we weren't even allowed to post on here at all... This is what DCP is, a forum. We discuss issues. Things won't always be positive, but if they were, we wouldn't be telling the truth or telling our opinions. Again, I'M SORRY if you think I'm unclassy. I think I'm fairly classy, but you're entitled to your own opinions. And if that's your opinion, I will respect it. But I'll tell you that I think you're VERY wrong. But see, that's the spirit of this forum. A discussion of opinions. Just try to make the discussion about drum corps and not me as a person. I'd appreciate that A LOT. Thank you, and have a nice day.

[jbenburton]

I once posted that I was a fan of The Thing in my signature on this board. That's partly because I have no drum corps marching experience but also because I was smitten with the quirky thing that was The Thing during their one year of existence under that name. They did not wear yellow jackets -- that was Pioneer (and actually, I believe it started out as The Pioneers). The Thing: the hastily arranged corps consisting of the St. Patrick's Imperials of Milwaukee and the Cedarburg Thunderboldts produced one of the great visual oddities of drumcorps history. St. Patricks retained their dark green, plaid Scottish kilt-style uniforms while the Thunderboldts had cadet-style uniforms of a sort of royal blue and red. Different sections of the corps wore one of these two different uniforms -- horns in the blue and red cadet style and drums in the dark green plaid kilt-style. So not only did the styles clash, but the colors didn't even come close to making a good match or even a good contrast. If anyone has photos this would be something special to see on this board. This look was basically the reason for the odd and contoversial name. In the early 70's ecclectisism was in vogue (witness progressive rock music from this era), so there was a faction that "dug" the name of the corps, while others associated with St. Patricks's or Cedarburg were aghast at it. It was controversial.

They didn't play any Irish music from what I recall. What I expecially remember, with fondness, was a few bars of the Looney Tunes theme (I believe this was happenstance and not part of the "odd" corps concept), which was followed by a sensational drum feature. The Thing had some really talented snare drummers, including a guy that marched most of the summer with one of his legs in a cast. Just amazing. Especially memorable for me was seeing them ordered off the field midway through their show because of an approaching thunderstorm. The corps went into troop the stands mode and played the same drum feature off the field, which meant I got to hear it four times in one night because they returned later to march their show again -- and then, of course, troop the stands again.

Pioneer is an Irish name: it was Pigh O'Near before they streamlined it to Pioneer . . . JK :P

You are right about the uni's I was going on memory when I wrote that, sorry about that and here is a link to a picture of the Thing for you:

http://groups.msn.com/PioneerAlumni/thethi...oto&PhotoID=136

I am not sure that Pioneer ever officially had the s on the end of their name, they did go by "The Pioneer" and then later dropped the from their name. I think people called them Pioneers, but they do not have it in their history that they actually used the s, maybe that was started from them having two corps at one time (Pioneer and Pioneer II) and people started calling them the Pioneers. Regardless it is not in the history of Pio: http://www.pioneer-corps.org/about/history.htm

Here is a site that has some of the history of Pioneer on it for all of you to read about and it is written from the viewpoint of the Thunderbolts:

http://my.execpc.com/~thbolt/thunderboltpage.html