ContraRich77 Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 long answer: also yes, but it will take another season or two for Bluecoats to have a legit shot at it. They must not only win, but overwhelm the judges, fans and competition to get the nod. But then again, the judging community always keep its cards close to its chest so you never really know what can happen - like back-to-back ties, for instance... <**> I couldn't agree more. To be realistic, to affect change in this activity means breaking into the inner circle doing your gig twice as good, twice as fast (for a lack of a better way of putting it) than the corps already at the top. Glassmen & Boston's first 5th place finishes are a prime example of this, as are the 2005 Bluecoats. I haven't seen Bloo live yet this year, but I did watch the streaming vids from San Antonio nite show so at least my perspective of all the corps performances is on a level playing field. I truly and honestly believe that this year's Bluecoats show is without question a championship winning caliber show. Not quite at the level of cleanliness of BD and Cavies yet, but I'm willing to be those kids have what it takes to pull it off by the end of the season. Problem is, is there enough time left to "overwhelm the judges, fans and competition to get the nod" with juggernauts like BD and Cavies in the way?? That's one thing I find disappointing in DCI competition these days: corps taking their relative placement early in the season, rarely to move above or below those corps scoring close to them if ever. I'll stop there, as I do not want to give the impression that I'm condemning the adjudication system or anything like that. Peace out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlooooContra Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 "Whatever" LOL That night was priceless! I forget offhand who made the comment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnweldy Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 (edited) There's two ways to win a championship. Either completely dominate all the other corps (ala 2002 Cavs, 94 Devs) or have a top 3 EVERYTHING, the right judging panel, and a little luck. I don't see Bloo doing the first anytime soon, but I think they could do the second as early as next year. Not saying I think they will win next year, but that they could put themselves in the position to. This year's placement will be very key. If they can stay in 4th (or climb to 3rd), it puts them into a VERY elite club. Every now and then a new contender comes along, knocks a few great shows out of the park, hits the 5th or 6th place wall, then drops back down. But who was the last corps other than the "big 6" (Cavs, Devs, SCV, Cadets, PR, Madison) to place in the top 4? 1990 Star. Before that? 1981 27th Lancers. That's a LONG time with no new blood in the top 4. Make no mistake...a top 4 finish would be VERY significant. Edited July 26, 2006 by johnweldy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KungFuCharlie Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 LOL That night was priceless! I forget offhand who made the comment I heard one name mentioned, but I asked him and he said he didn't do it. :sshh: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KFanti Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 Make no mistake...a top 4 finish would be VERY significant. ...and it's very possible this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgoth Bauglir Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 This is the crux of what my "stagnation" article was all about...If we want new blood, we have to make allowances for the possibility that our favourite corps may not have beachfront property in the Top Five anymore. But, what it usually boils down to is: "I want change at the top! Bring on the new blood! Just not at the expense of MY corps!" Even Hopkins has said as much, in his blog, when he has subtly complained about the judging this year...it's fine when it happens to someone else, just not to our favourites. It would almost be worth it to me to see a top five one year of Bloo, Gmen, BK, Crown, and BAC. Even if it was only one magical year, that would certainly shake things up. Swap X-men for Crown and I would love to see that top 5 as well B) You're right on with the "new blood" premise. So the question falls to "Are Cavies BD or Cadets all going to give up their spots to a new corps"? That is the real question. Bloo can beat Cadets this year. And they might beat another one of those 3 another year. Can Bloo beat all 3 the same year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent 89 Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 I disagreee. I saw both of those shows from up close all summer long, and...to be honest with you, though I hate to admit it...They were much better than everyone else. Visual and guard were better than Cavies (except for maybe Visual GE, which I believe we took), their hornline was better, their drumline was better...maybe the Cavies had a better guard, but not by much... They should have scored closer to the mid 97s, perhaps 97.5 or higher that night... They were certainly better than just .7 over Cavaliers...Cavaliers were very dirty (visually) on Finals night, I thought. Thanks... nice to know that somebody agreed with me. B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent 89 Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 Swap X-men for Crown and I would love to see that top 5 as well B) You're right on with the "new blood" premise. So the question falls to "Are Cavies BD or Cadets all going to give up their spots to a new corps"? That is the real question. Bloo can beat Cadets this year. And they might beat another one of those 3 another year. Can Bloo beat all 3 the same year? Nobody "gives up a spot". Any new corps which makes it into the top 5 has to earn it by being better than one of those corps... same thing for each additional rung of the placement ladder on up. Every corps every year tries its hardest to make the best show it possibly can, so BD, Cavies, Cadets and anybody else will continue to do that. What I think will eventually make the difference is which corps can retain its outstanding design and instructional staffs (or even improve them), and which corps has the most veteran membership. Having a strong, veteran group of members can not be overstated here. It is key to being a cohesive and focused group. Invariably, though, someone each year will lose a lot of veterans to aging out and/or defection. Whomever is best able to avoid this problem and continue to restock their talent pools will be the ones who continue to flourish. (I really think the staff and talent turnover issues both hit SCV at the same time in a big way a couple of years ago. They're just recovering now). These things happen to every corps to some degree. It is impossible to avoid completely, but it can be offset by having a very strong talent pool to pull from (like BD & Cadets) when they need to restock, and by having the great designers pass on their tricks of the trade to their replacements (like Cavies and Star) when they are about to lose a designer. I love this aspect of the activity, and it reminds me a great deal of the issues that college sports programs have because their athletes are limited to only 4 years of elligibility maximum. It keeps the game from being completely monopolized by one or two groups entirely, and allows opportunities to others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluecontra93 Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 Nobody "gives up a spot". Any new corps which makes it into the top 5 has to earn it by being better than one of those corps... same thing for each additional rung of the placement ladder on up.Every corps every year tries its hardest to make the best show it possibly can, so BD, Cavies, Cadets and anybody else will continue to do that. What I think will eventually make the difference is which corps can retain its outstanding design and instructional staffs (or even improve them), and which corps has the most veteran membership. Having a strong, veteran group of members can not be overstated here. It is key to being a cohesive and focused group. Invariably, though, someone each year will lose a lot of veterans to aging out and/or defection. Whomever is best able to avoid this problem and continue to restock their talent pools will be the ones who continue to flourish. (I really think the staff and talent turnover issues both hit SCV at the same time in a big way a couple of years ago. They're just recovering now). These things happen to every corps to some degree. It is impossible to avoid completely, but it can be offset by having a very strong talent pool to pull from (like BD & Cadets) when they need to restock, and by having the great designers pass on their tricks of the trade to their replacements (like Cavies and Star) when they are about to lose a designer. I love this aspect of the activity, and it reminds me a great deal of the issues that college sports programs have because their athletes are limited to only 4 years of elligibility maximum. It keeps the game from being completely monopolized by one or two groups entirely, and allows opportunities to others. I totally agree with you on the part of the instructional and design staff comment. For the Bluecoats, I believe the steal of the century was aquiring Mike MacIntosh from the Cavaliers. He's what I would like to call the Brett Favre of Drum Corps drum lines. I believe it was John Madden who said (about Favre): "He can beat your guys with his guys and he can take your guys and beat his guys." With Mac, also came some other big names in the business: Brett Kuhn, Scott Koter, Drew Shanefield. If you also add the instructional and design talent that has been developed in their tenure at the Bluecoats in people like Doug Thrower, Mitch Rodgers and Stephanie Furniss. For lack of a better term, "politics" does exist in drum corps. For a judge, I would suppose that critique is somewhat akin to time in the dentist's chair or a trip to the proctologist. I believe it would be tough to tell the design staff of the "big three" that the Bluecoats have a better product to their face. That's why the most respected name with the most political coin you can get works to your advantage. With those names also comes the talent. Percussion and color guard are the two captions that signify this the most. The corps for which they march is not as important as the instructor that they march for. Look at the drumlines at BK in the early nineties. They went there for Ralph Hardimon. Look at the colorguard mass exodus from SCV to PR last year and what happened to the colorguard program at Bluecoats in 99. For the Bluecoats to win a championship, they need to keep the core design and instructional staff in place, add/tweak a few areas, and keep the Texas pipeline open. In the near future, I don't believe that the Bluecoats are going to dominate the activity (Cavs 02) so their best bet is to have the best balanced program to be in the top 3 in every caption to bring new Blood to the champioship level in DCI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebu Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 (edited) Though I've loved the Bluecoats' shows the past few years... I don't think they'll be our next new champion. The next new DCI champion is currently busy dominating division 2 & 3, and they haven't even made their first trip to finals yet. ( The Academy. ) Edited July 26, 2006 by rebu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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