Who is Judge Jackie Gilley?

[SkyDog]

Personally, I don't care whether my score goes up or down a bit from show to show, so long as it's accurate when compared to other groups at the same show. Let's say my group normally scores around 17 in a certain caption and some other corps typically gets a 15. If one night we drop to 15 and they drop to a 13 or so, it's no big deal.

And no matter how clearly judging criteria are defined, there still is some subjectivity involved. Judges, like instructors, have certain items and technique issues they might notice more than the next guy. This seems to be one of the more likely possibilities to explain why a given line seems to go up or down in score whenever they see a certain judge. Between tapes, sheets, and critiques, a staff should be able to figure out why their line got the numbers and placement they did.

I'm not familiar with the particular judge being discussed here, but I have been in groups that seemed to get completely slammed by particular judges. I remember thinking at the time that they were out to get us or something, but listening to recordings a few years later and remembering those judges' comments, almost all of their criticisms were completely valid.

Such is life in a judged event. Whether it's drum corps, gymnastics, skating, or even a dog show, you've got someone's opinion figuring into the results. All you can do is take the field and kick some ***. Let someone else worry about the numbers.

[OMH]

I think it is a no win situation of judges. If their score varies from what a corps has recieved in the past they are vilified. If they stick to the trend then they are considered to be unable to think for them selves and call it as they see it. I'd rather see a judge call it each night as long as they can justify the score.

rjb, I couldn't agree with you more.

I WISH that ALL judges would call it like they see it, regardless of any given corps current scoring trend.

It would make the competitions more exciting, to know that on any given competition, any corps COULD (theoretically) win.

I believe that is what has made NFL football a more popular sport in recent years. On any given Sunday, anyone could win.

However, please refer to the data set given in the original post.

In this case, all of the other corps were judged "normally" for the given caption.

Only Surf was scored "lower than average" (by ALOT) on all of the occasions (four by my count).

If all of the corps scores were lower by that judge, no big deal.

That's a judge exercising their judgement evenly.

Perhaps Surf had really bad performances in that specific caption, on those specfic nights, by that specific judge?

FOUR times consecutively?

What really bites in this case in that the performances in question affected the performance placement of the corps in question.

And we all know that, in general, placement in scoring generates placement of performance, and placement of performance is closely tied to placment in scoring.

But really, while admitting a certain affection and concern for the corps in question, I'd really like to know WHAT she specifically is judging on that other judges seem to consider less costly point-wise.

Because, as a fan, I'm still learning.

Edited August 8, 2006 by OMH

[Becca Sue]

I'm sure there's probably something in place as a "Judges Review" at the end of the season...so as to make sure that all of the judges are staying on track.

But there is a possibility that maybe the corps just had a bad night in that particular area. BUT I do see that if it happens with the same judge, every time, then maybe there's a difference of opinion that that particular judge has. And I'm not saying to hound the judge, but I know some are open to questions about interpretation.

And it doesn't have to be questions like "Why didn't we get a higher score than this" but more like "I'm not quite understanding these technique sheets, could you maybe go into a little more depth about this?".

All of the comments, tapes, etc. do seem to sink in more AFTER the season is over. Corps members, staff, etc. have to remember that in the heat of the moment, as fierce as competition is (especially right now), any critique will probably be taken a little to the extreme. This is the time of perfection, and no one likes their errors pointed out. But it's part of Drum Corps, part of competition.

My advice is to take a step back, a deep breath, and re-evaluate the critiques. Maybe they are valid, maybe not. If you feel that the judge is in the wrong, then don't follow their critique. But remember, competition, although a key part in Drum Corps, is not everything. These kids are learning alot. I myself, as a fan, am learning alot. I would give an arm and a leg to have been able just to have the EXPERIENCE. Don't put all of your emphasis on a number. 1st place feels great, but 10th place with all your heart, feels just as good.

Good luck to ALL of the corps out there!!

[Sideways]

Dug this one up since the torches are being lit and the pitch forks are being sharpened, have fun kiddies! ;)

[CrunchyTenor]

Dude, you went back 7 years for this?!?!

I guess some things never change, though and she doesn't seem to like The Cadets either. Compare the guard scores from DeKalb (Niebaur) and San Antonio (Gilley).

Corps DeKalb San Antonio +/-

Blue Devils 17.3 17.9 +0.6

Carolina Crown 17.2 18.0 +0.8

The Cadets 17.1 16.8 -0.3

Santa Clara Vanguard 17.0 17.6 +0.6

Phantom Regiment 16.7 17.4 +0.7

Bluecoats 15.6 16.6 +1.0

The Cavaliers 15.9 16.7 +0.8

I find it hard to believe that The Cadets' guard didn't improve, and actually went down in score, especially compared to their competitiors.

Garry in Vegas

[seepoo]

From Pogo:

"We have met the enemy, and it is us!"

I've often wondered who's checking in on the judges during the season and after the season.

All this time and money spent to revamp the judging system didn't seem to work. Especially in GE. It's business as usual. Fans sitting on their hands

doesn't seem to matter. Maybe it's not supposed to matter. But fans (spectators) pay the way.