Mixed meter (aka Time Signature)

[mpsanchez]

I personally would have a bigger concern with uneven meters. If it just changes from 3/4 to 4/4 to 5/4, that's no big deal; you just have to memorize the correct number of counts. However, when the beat isn't steady (as in 7/8 where it's 1&2&3&&) you're going to have a problem on your hands. It would take a mature performer (heck it takes a mature musician!) to count that. I'm not saying it can't be done, but it's not a battle I would want to fight.

The piece is in 5/8 so counting would be 1-2-3-1-2. It was recommended to me that I spend a few minutes each day running a clapping/marching exercise to build what an old band director called "rhythmic chops."

I hear you on 7/8 being a nightmare. Senior-year percussion ensemble was in that time signature. It took the band director a few weeks to figure we couldn't count it. We all managed after rehearsing it for a few months. I wouldn't put our line, most of whom do not play an instrument, through something like that.

[Jak]

So is it 5/8 counting 5 beats per measure or counting 2 beats per measure? With 5 it shouldn't be that hard. With 2, that means it's 1&& 2&, which would be really tough. In other words, the first beat in each measure would be 50% longer than the 2nd. That can be really tough to count.

[mpsanchez]

So is it 5/8 counting 5 beats per measure or counting 2 beats per measure? With 5 it shouldn't be that hard. With 2, that means it's 1&& 2&, which would be really tough. In other words, the first beat in each measure would be 50% longer than the 2nd. That can be really tough to count.

With this piece of music you can count it straight as 1-2-3-4-5 but it's easier to count it according to the dominant beats: 1-2-1-2-3. No fancy 1-ta-ta-2-tah is necessary.

Edited November 15, 2006 by mpsanchez

[Jak]

With this piece of music you can count it straight as 1-2-3-4-5 but it's easier to count it according to the dominant beats: 1-2-1-2-3. No fancy 1-ta-ta-2-tah is necessary.

Well that shouldn't be too bad then.

Good luck!

[epwtrguard05]

Just curious!!!!

What's the name of the piece you're thinking about using?

Band season a few seasons back, we did "Sunset Boulevard". The 5/8 time in the title number was a bit difficult at first to adapt to. But after few weeks into it, it became a lot better and easier to understand.

It was just getting my girls to understand it. I also did the hand clapping exercise and that seemed to work!

Good Luck!!

[mpsanchez]

What's the name of the piece you're thinking about using?

Sufjan Stevens' "All Good Naysayers, Speak Up! Or Forever Hold Your Peace!" from his "Michigan" album was the track I had considered and experimented with. I am now using "The Predatory Wasp of the Palisades Is Out to Get Us!" from his "Illinois" disc instead. An equally challenging time signature, but easier for my students to cope with.

Edited December 4, 2006 by mpsanchez

[Malibu]

Sufjan Stevens' "All Good Naysayers, Speak Up! Or Forever Hold Your Peace!" from his "Michigan" album was the track I had considered and experimented with. I am now using "The Predatory Wasp of the Palisades Is Out to Get Us!" from his "Illinois" disc instead. An equally challenging time signature, but easier for my students to cope with.

Mike, using a mix meter is not all that difficult. I used one a couple of years ago that was in 5/8 and we counted it straight 1-5. The girls had no problem with it. In fact they won a bronze in our circuit with it.

I would rather use mix meter any day over straight 4/4....it allows you to use multi tempos at the same time on the floor.

Good Luck!

[mpsanchez]

Mike, using a mix meter is not all that difficult. I used one a couple of years ago that was in 5/8 and we counted it straight 1-5. The girls had no problem with it. In fact they won a bronze in our circuit with it.

I would rather use mix meter any day over straight 4/4....it allows you to use multi tempos at the same time on the floor.

Good Luck!

Well, the kids are learning the show using a simpler 8x8 counting which is a bit slower than the music. Once they are comfortable with the work, I'll start to nit-pick a few places. They are learning a number of bits by music rather than by count. That makes it terribly difficult to clean later, but it's such a killer piece.

[Jak]

Does anyone have a great approach for teaching parts to music that can't be counted? You know, music that is very slow and free with virtually no discernible tempo? We considered a few great pieces of music for this winter and dismissed them because we couldn't count them. We had tried doing ones like that in the past, and it never seems to work out very well. If it was a singer, we would clean to words (up on the, flat on love, etc.). The kids never feel really comfortable this way. Anybody have better suggestions?

[Stick Stack]

I believe that it's only going to be as good as the instructor can explain it.

Many instructors I've had, even at the highest levels, do not understand mixed meter, especially with a shifting mixed meter or a meter that changes frequently.

I would suggest getting someone who understands music really well (I.E. a band director) to come in and help counting the music and phrasing, at least at the design level of the process.

They usually have much more experience teaching mixed meter and know how to explain it well to students.

Miced meter can do well, as long as judges recognize that something is mixed meter and can understand the difficulties associated with it. I don't believe this always happens.

Then again, it's a good selling point in critique...