"Tradition" in Drum Corps

[BariPhynque]

I see it like this... all things evolve. Think about any major pro sport. They have all evolved over the years.

Yes indeed! I love football, but I can't stand it ever since they put those masks on their helmets and quit running the wishbone.

I wish that they would make a new football league which would only use old-style formations and game-planning. [/sarcasm]

[LoveSOS]

Actually the members of today have a lot more opportunity to at least get an idea of drum corps of the past, even pre-DCI to an extent, than I did when I marched.

There are videos available going back to 1970...I had no idea what drum corps of 1936 looked like in 1971, while members in 2006 could, if they wished, watch the entire 1971 World Open (in B&W, of course).

Some corps make it a point to have current members realize the past. From personal experience, when I first joined the Caballeros and first walked into Post 199 in November of 2002, the guys (who at the time i didn;t know) sitting at the bar were watching old corps videos of the Cabs from previous years. I loved it! It was a way of tying two cultures together.

I have never heard of anyone bashing the way things were done in the past, I just hope people can be open and not bash the way thigns are done in the present, or will be done in the future. It just doesn't make sense.

[Martybucs]

Actually the members of today have a lot more opportunity to at least get an idea of drum corps of the past, even pre-DCI to an extent, than I did when I marched.

There are videos available going back to 1970...I had no idea what drum corps of 1936 looked like in 1971, while members in 2006 could, if they wished, watch the entire 1971 World Open (in B&W, of course).

No Mike, watching an old video won't do it. The show would just look lame to a kid raised on the "Broadway" aspects of today's shows. It would have to be a pretty comprehensive presentation to give the old shows their due and explain the reasons for doing the shows that way. Can you spell Y-A-W-N?

It was more about homage to our country and the everyman warrior that came to the aid of their country in times of need. There was a definite "military" tribute to God and Country and the heoes that defended our nation that is missing now.

From your standpoint of performing and teaching, I think, that aspect is insignificant. You are more concerned about the advancement of performance standards and education. That's cool, but it's not drum corps in the traditional sense.

It goes way beyond what key the horns are in. Band instruments existed at the same time the initial decision to use bugles was made. It was about being disciplined and excellent in a "military" sort of way. That's why the shows looked like military drills and had color presentations. That's why there was a salute between drum major and head judge. That's why there were equipment and uniform inspections. It was about precision marching in rank and file, that's why everything had to be carried.

It's impossible to compare now and then. It does such a disservice to both traditions. One can't help but hurt the feelings of the other. All the emotions are the same. I think the pride and the satisfaction achieved from doing both styles is the same. The motivation is the same. The end result and purpose are different.

The people that long for the traditional style of drum corps have been disenfranchised by the "advancement" of today's corps. That in mind, the comparisons and discussion of the old "military" style corps to what is performed today probably doesn't belong here anymore. It only leads to frustration, anger and hurt feelings to the people that take this stuff personally and perhaps, too seriously.

Maybe the people that run this site could add yet another board labeled "TRADITIONAL DRUM CORPS" or "VFW/AL CORPS", (and not merely a sub forum of DCA or DCI) for those that want to discuss the old days and the value therein and maybe even find eachother and come together to revive the military style of DRUM AND BUGLE CORPS. My best guess says the visitors and posters to said board would be few and far between, albeit, they would be passionate.

Edited January 18, 2007 by Martybucs

[MikeD]

No Mike, watching an old video won't do it. The show would just look lame to a kid raised on the "Broadway" aspects of today's shows. It would have to be a pretty comprehensive presentation to give the old shows their due and explain the reasons for doing the shows that way. Can you spell Y-A-W-N?

Well, it's better than nothing...and more than I ever had access to. I have shown Garfield 71 to a few folks with a short intro. It's only a flavor, and a pale one at that, of course.

It was more about homage to our country and the everyman warrior that came to the aid of their country in times of need. There was a definite "military" tribute to God and Country and the heoes that defended our nation that is missing now.

Well, I don't ever remember thinking those things...or being told those things, when I marched, in any of the corps I was with. We did a color-pre because in those days you did a color-pre.

From your standpoint of performing and teaching, I think, that aspect is insignificant. You are more concerned about the advancement of performance standards and education. That's cool, but it's not drum corps in the traditional sense.

Well, in a sense it is...striving for excellence and the overall experience the members have is "drum corps in the traditional sense" to me.

The people that long for the traditional style of drum corps have been disenfranchised by the "advancement" of today's corps. That in mind, the comparison's and discussion of the old "military" style corps to what is performed today probably doesn't belong here anymore. It only leads to frustration, anger and hurt feelings to the people that take this stuff personally and perhaps, too seriously.

I think it does belong, because this is a good place to discuss all aspects of drum corps. However, the negative treatment the current generation gets from the older one is what poisons what should be a marvelous learning experience. "It's not drum corps"..."It's Brass bands"..."bandos"..."If you can't carry it...it doesn't belong"....etc....are not condusive to helping current members understand the old style, at least not IMO.

One of my favorite shows of all time is BS 1969; I can still (sort-of) play the snare parts to their drum solos...and I have played them for the drummers with the band I arrange for and teach. Heck, for parades I arranged "America, the Beautiful" for the band, and I borrowed from their great chart in a few spots. I also arranged 2-7's version of "Crown Imperial" for competition parades...my all time favorite opener.

Other personal faves are Crown 04 and Cadets 05..as unlike the above in show design as you can get. But....to me the connections between the eras are as plain as day....but that is just me, I guess.

Maybe the people that run this site could add yet another board labeled "TRADITIONAL DRUM CORPS" or "VFW/AL CORPS", (and not merely a sub forum of DCA or DCI) for those that want to discuss the old days and the value therein and maybe even find eachother and come together to revive the military style of DRUM AND BUGLE CORPS. My best guess says the visitors and posters to said board would be few and far between, albeit, they would be passionate.

Yes, but it might degnerate into a 'now is bad...then was great' kind of thing.

[Martybucs]

Well, it's better than nothing...and more than I ever had access to. I have shown Garfield 71 to a few folks with a short intro. It's only a flavor, and a pale one at that, of course.

Well, I don't ever remember thinking those things...or being told those things, when I marched, in any of the corps I was with. We did a color-pre because in those days you did a color-pre.

Well, in a sense it is...striving for excellence and the overall experience the members have is "drum corps in the traditional sense" to me.

I think it does belong, because this is a good place to discuss all aspects of drum corps. However, the negative treatment the current generation gets from the older one is what poisons what should be a marvelous learning experience. "It's not drum corps"..."It's Brass bands"..."bandos"..."If you can't carry it...it doesn't belong"....etc....are not condusive to helping current members understand the old style, at least not IMO.

One of my favorite shows of all time is BS 1969; I can still (sort-of) play the snare parts to their drum solos...and I have played them for the drummers with the band I arrange for and teach. Heck, for parades I arranged "America, the Beautiful" for the band, and I borrowed from their great chart in a few spots. I also arranged 2-7's version of "Crown Imperial" for competition parades...my all time favorite opener.

Other personal faves are Crown 04 and Cadets 05..as unlike the above in show design as you can get. But....to me the connections between the eras are as plain as day....but that is just me, I guess.

Yes, but it might degnerate into a 'now is bad...then was great' kind of thing.

I apologize I haven't taken the time to figure out how to seperate the quotes to reply to each item. Don't mean to confuse anyone.

Mike, most drummers in the traditional shows pretty much went upfield and downfield and didn't march so much the rank and file type of drill, where every aspect of interval, size of step, straightness, etc is judged and ticked. In the late sixties a loophole was discovered in VFW rules that drills didn't have to be rank and file type drills and then the drills opened up to a whole myriad of designs and styles in which the avoidance of any judgable formation became the norm. Hence, todays drill styles got their start.

By 1969, most shows had the beginnings of what we see now. Not so much traditional and more geared to entertainment. Still had color pres. and many of the traditional trappings but the trend was in place for the future. Most people see and accept how the past has led to what we have now. Most are OK with it. I'm OK with today's shows, many are too awesome for words. I usually point out that I just miss the traditional shows for what they were. Nostalgia, I guess.

The rancor between the generations cuts both ways, Mike, as indicated by the sarcasm in the "football" post a couple of entries back. That sort of stuff helps no one.

The point of a seperate board would be to seperate those that can't "play nice", but still have valid points and interests and maybe even a desire to revive the past. If it "degenerates" into "now is bad...then was great", it only pertains to the people on that board. I don't think it would lead to a revolution and I think it would stay on those boards - no harm, no foul.

[MikeD]

I apologize I haven't taken the time to figure out how to seperate the quotes to reply to each item. Don't mean to confuse anyone.

Mike, most drummers in the traditional shows pretty much went upfield and downfield

Yup...the old "elevator drills'.

By 1969, most shows had the beginnings of what we see now. Not so much traditional and more geared to entertainment. Still had color pres. and many of the traditional trappings but the trend was in place for the future. Most people see and accept how the past has led to what we have now. Most are OK with it. I'm OK with today's shows, many are too awesome for words. I usually point out that I just miss the traditional shows for what they were. Nostalgia, I guess.

No disagreement there. For Garfield, the difference between 1970 and 71 visually was a quantum leap forward. 70 still opened with a company front that chugged across the field to Gounod's "Queen of Sheba"...71 we had a whole drill IN the endzone to the quiet start of Yankee Doodle to position the corps in a form up in the corner to diagonally move towards midfield.

The rancor between the generations cuts both ways, Mike, as indicated by the sarcasm in the "football" post a couple of entries back. That sort of stuff helps no one.

IMO it's incumbent on us veterans to provide a good example so the current generation doesn't feel as though they are being dumped on at every chance, as happens at times.

The point of a seperate board would be to seperate those that can't "play nice", but still have valid points and interests and maybe even a desire to revive the past. If it "degenerates" into "now is bad...then was great", it only pertains to the people on that board. I don't think it would lead to a revolution and I think it would stay on those boards - no harm, no foul.

Oh, nothing wrong with it. I used to post in the Yahoo group that was geared to drum corps of the 60's and 70's, but as you might guess I wore out MY welcome pretty early on. :P