"Tradition" in Drum Corps

[Geneva]

Point is, I think the numbers that most corps, DCI/DCA have in all of their sections are usually well balanced. To put 5 people in a pit that has 75 musicians marching behind them would be insane.

You could probably pull it off with amplification.

[Vagabond Skyliner]

Too much pit. I agree. Sometimes, during the drum solos you can't even hear the rest of the drumline for the marimbas and bells. Tough call, though, if you're in the pit...you want to play. Comes down to writing and balance and in the case of old timers like ourselves what you're used to hearing. I can't see why you would want them amped, though.

However, hard to imagine, "Russian Christmas Music", without the bells, "1812 Overture" without a huge bass drum, or "Carmina Burana" without a big gong, etc. I do think the instruction, "tacet", could be used more often.

In anycase, the people that play in the pits are indeed people with feelings and to characterize what they do as a bunch of meaningless sounds is mean-hearted. I know you're trying to make a point and want to be humorous, (and it is, to an old school brass player and over a couple of beers), but I don't think there is a need to insult anyone. It's just a difference of opinions.

Marty;

I have ABSOLUTLY never wanted any use at all for any Amps or Electronic stuff at all!!!

I do agree that having the things for the music you mentioned. BUT, I do not want to hear the Bells and stuff like that in music where it is/was not a part of the original peice.

I can go with the Small pit. Playing when needed. Like I said. I want the music to sound more like the Original piece.

To me a part of the Traditional Drum Corps was finding a way to play different pieces of music and playing it in a way that resembled the Original piece. NOT some "Designers" opinion of what it should be. I think a lot of "WOW" factor has been lost. The I "I can not believe they can play that". is gone. Most music played today is hardly recogonizable.

I for instance, am a Civil War buff also. So when I herad that a group in DCI was going to do a whole show of the movie "Gettysburg" I could not wait. But, Boy was I dissappointed. If I had not been told inadvance of what they were playing I would not have recogonized it. (Other than a phrase here and there) Oh and by the way the way. The use of the Tymps and/or Base drum in the Pit was Great idea. Sounded good and FIT well)

Bye the way. I do not see where I insulted anyone, in my last post or in this.

[JoeBas]

The alumni and all age corps are for the most part trying to perserve the tradition of drum and bugle corps, which of course G is in the heart of buGle, and always will be the heart of the word and action. As far as there being G horns available, they will always be available, if you can't get them in the U.S.A. I'm sure you can find a Chinese, or India horn company willing to construct them to your specs. What is needed to keep traditional corps alive is for those corps wanting to keep it such, is for them to ban together, make rules that would forbid the kinds of changes that destroyed corps in the first place, then we need to reform Jr. corps in a grass roots effort, in the traditional style, and if need be use the older horns to get started, get the American Legion's, VFW's, Elks, etc reinvolved in supporting, through your memberships in such activities, making the corps local corps as they used to be. Don't say there wouldn't be any power corps then, when there were a lot fewer people around, the BIG corps were as big, and there were as many if not more then today, and there were still hundreds, on hundreds of class A, B, & C corps around. So the real trick is to make it a local activity again, getting the kida reinvolved, not only band people, changing sax players to play a horn, but get the kid off the street corner, and teach him to play, more than a few corps people came from there, and became well known professional players.

[JoeBas]

I think I'm confusing tradition with traditional. I don't think of pits as traditional drum corps. They weren't around until the last few years I marched, so when I think traditional, drum corps sound, I don't think of it including the pit.

I don't think I ever said, "pits suck", I don't think that at all, they're part of modern drum corps. In that sense, they are part of the drum corps tradition for at least the last 20 years. I'm OK with that.

However, personally, I prefer my drum corps without pit.

IF IT CAN'T BE CARRIED IT SHOULDN'T BE ON THE FIELD. Tradition, or traditional corps, equipment was always carried, if it even touched the ground it was a 1/10 penalty, let alone laying equipment all over the field. The field also was with in the confined of the field, the pitts set up for the most part off the field. Military bearing and staying with in the lines weren't what it was all about, it was only a part of the whole, what you could do within the boundries is part of what made it great, in traditional corps, bells, timp's, and all kinds of equipment were used, but it was carried. Remove the boundries, and take away from the greatness. Being proud of what we are, and where we're from also mattered, not only is there no color presentation, there are no colors. Bring back the flag and presentation. Just my humble opinions.

[LegalEagle50]

all i can say after reading that is i am SO glad i'm in an Alumni corps with a modern mindset.

:)

[Jami]

Wow... I'd like to think I have pretty thick skin but when I read people saying to get rid of my section and basically saying our efforts aren't really appreciated, well, it kinda makes me long for my DCI days.

That makes me pretty sad.

At least I know that not everyone in the DCA audience feels this way.

We need a shaking head in disbelief emoticon.

[Martybucs]

I think I'm not the only one confusing traditional with tradition.

If I had to vote; pit or no pit for drum corps, I would vote no pit. I believe traditional drum corps was a marching unit and everything had to be carried. (sometimes by really BIG people). I find the pit distracting from why I listen to drum corps.

I also find the modern guards to be visually distracting and the props on the field to be so, also.

However, that was pre DCA/DCI drum corps, what I call traditional. DCA and DCI allow the pit and props on the field and have for a very long time and there is a long tradition of it in DCA and DCI. I don't like it, but there it is. In the minds of those that march in DCA and DCI today, the pit has a right and a tradition to be there.

The people in the pits are musicians, whether you like what they do or not, and to characterize their playing as noise or illustrate that point by using words like, "Ting, Ping, Pling, Clong, Thong, Plink, Click, Clack, " is condescending and insulting to the musicians, aka, people.

Edited January 15, 2007 by Martybucs

[mchromik]

The alumni and all age corps are for the most part trying to perserve the tradition of drum and bugle corps, which of course G is in the heart of buGle, and always will be the heart of the word and action. As far as there being G horns available, they will always be available, if you can't get them in the U.S.A. I'm sure you can find a Chinese, or India horn company willing to construct them to your specs. What is needed to keep traditional corps alive is for those corps wanting to keep it such, is for them to ban together, make rules that would forbid the kinds of changes that destroyed corps in the first place, then we need to reform Jr. corps in a grass roots effort, in the traditional style, and if need be use the older horns to get started, get the American Legion's, VFW's, Elks, etc reinvolved in supporting, through your memberships in such activities, making the corps local corps as they used to be. Don't say there wouldn't be any power corps then, when there were a lot fewer people around, the BIG corps were as big, and there were as many if not more then today, and there were still hundreds, on hundreds of class A, B, & C corps around. So the real trick is to make it a local activity again, getting the kida reinvolved, not only band people, changing sax players to play a horn, but get the kid off the street corner, and teach him to play, more than a few corps people came from there, and became well known professional players.

I would argue that the decline of modern drum corps has little to do with rules and instrument changes. Changes in society, social norms, leisure activities have had far more effect on drum corps then anything else. There are far more activities for todays youth to be involved in, educational time demands are higher, family lifestyle changes, ect. This is why grass roots drum corps has dwindled, along with scouting and little league. Is there room for a more 'grass roots' approach? I would say so, particularly with Div2/3 in juniors and Maybe class A in DCA. Don't count on the American Legion or VFW to start it. Just taking my grandpas VFW hall for example, they are fighting for their existence, with little interest or money for drum corps. Local drum corps could be reistablished, but I don't think it will ever be what it once was. Younger band age kids are usually in competitive band programs and have summer obligations. The kid on the street is being raised on a higher faster louder 1000 cable channel video game fueled instant gratification lifestyle. Not sure how much appeal struggling on a brass instrument has for them.

I think Marty has hit the nail on the head. Tradition vs. Traditional. The idea of traditional drum corps may have appeal for many of this small audience, but do you really think todays age outs and band kids, which are tomorrows All-Age base, are really interested in hard corps guard, G bugles, no pit style drum corps? This is the province of Alumni Corps. All-Age/Senior Corps will have to roll ahead however begrudgingly just to keep up with the needs and wants of the bulk of it's membership. No activity sport or what have you can arbitrarily freeze itself at a given technological or style level without becoming an anachronism. Put simply you are trying to sell Monopoly to Halo fans if you push Traditional drum corps on today's Corps and Band Kids.

[camel lips]

I would argue that the decline of modern drum corps has little to do with rules and instrument changes.

I would have to disagree with that.

I am probably involved more in drum corps NOW than I have been in my entire life.

With that said I find myself having no desire to go to a DCI show and watch just another band show.Other than Woodwinds I don't see to many differances in the two.I consider both DCI and BOA to be bandwacked!

I suspect there are a lot of other people out there that feel the same way therefore the decline of modern drum corps DOES have something to do with the rules and instrument changes.

Edited January 15, 2007 by camel lips

[Vagabond Skyliner]

I think I'm not the only one confusing traditional with tradition.

If I had to vote; pit or no pit for drum corps, I would vote no pit. I believe traditional drum corps was a marching unit and everything had to be carried. (sometimes by really BIG people). I find the pit distracting from why I listen to drum corps.

I also find the modern guards to be visually distracting and the props on the field to be so, also.

However, that was pre DCA/DCI drum corps, what I call traditional. DCA and DCI allow the pit and props on the field and have for a very long time and there is a long tradition of it in DCA and DCI. I don't like it, but there it is. In the minds of those that march in DCA and DCI today, the pit has a right and a tradition to be there.

The people in the pits are musicians, whether you like what they do or not, and to characterize their playing as noise or illustrate that point by using words like, "Ting, Ping, Pling, Clong, Thong, Plink, Click, Clack, " is condescending and insulting to the musicians, aka, people.

I did not refer to it as NOISE. I was referring to the SOUNDS, not the player.

AND, as I said. NOT every piece of music has ALL those sounds in them. To add them changes the piece to something else. Which is what has happened. Almost NO music played today resembles the Original piece. Now I am not saying that every piece has to be an EXACT replica of the Original. Just saying that it should be MORE recogonizable as that of the Original.

AND as I said. I realize that the pit is NOW a part of some sort of tradition. Not a part I would want, but non the less. It has been around since the '70s.

As to the Color Guard. They are GONE. They are in NO WAY a Color Guard. They are a Visual Dance Ensembles.

Very professional to be sure. Fabulus at what they do. BUT, they are NOT a Color Guard. Calling them that makes no sence. To be honest they should NOT want to be called a Color Guard. They are what they are. A Visual Dance Ensemble that is to "Enhance the Total Visual" show being performed by the group.

Edited January 15, 2007 by LucysSkylinerAlumni