Show Silks and Uniforms

[Toby]

It sounds an awful lot to me like you're suggesting that the top Div. I guard instructors don't plan or prepare for their season. I can assure you that's not true. But all planning and talent aside, 3 weeks isn't enough time to put an 10 minute show on the field with any quality.

I sometimes wonder on this, Jak. I remember we would at least have the show music and drill down for high school marching band in no more than 3 weeks. Guard, understandable in getting work down since it should be written to the music (which can change from initial receipt into the band's hands to end of camp), but costumes and flags were done before our first competition.

Just my two cents. :)

[garfield_cadets]

We will just have to agree to disagree, Jak.

While not specifically refering to the "top" caption heads and staff, this is true for "most" of the Open Class corps in DCI. I know, I have seen it.

And while I'm not going to bad mouth any named instructors on an open forum, I will say that I DO know that it's not so much about "brilliance" of adding elements along the way as it is bad planning.

But I just tell it like I see it.

Edited June 19, 2007 by garfield_cadets

[Guardguy89]

I used to teach DI & DII - so I understand how hard (or almost impossible) it is to get a full show on the field in June.

However - I would think that at the very least major impact points in the show would be taken care of work wise - then add in the "in between work". I hate seeing the gaurd being featured in the middle of the field for 64 counts doing nothing - but then they have work to get to the next shape after that.

Although - it does make me laugh :P

Later,

Mike

[Jak]

I used to teach DI & DII - so I understand how hard (or almost impossible) it is to get a full show on the field in June.

However - I would think that at the very least major impact points in the show would be taken care of work wise - then add in the "in between work". I hate seeing the gaurd being featured in the middle of the field for 64 counts doing nothing - but then they have work to get to the next shape after that.

Although - it does make me laugh :P

Later,

Mike

When we teach our fall or winter shows, we start with count #1 and don't go to #2 till it's done, etc. That means our first winter show we may only have 2.5 minutes on. But it will be totally full and quality. I personally don't like jumping around and filling in parts and having holes here and there. I've found that you often end up boxing yourself in to bad transitions or staging errors. Also, the kids don't understand how to connect the dots and perform straight through until very late in the season when they learn that way.

I still don't think you can teach a complete 10 minute show with drill and parts in 3 weeks. Of course, I'm assuming that you're doing things right and spending at least a couple hours each day on technique. And also that you're cleaning and taking the time needed to be at least presentable. Why would I want to watch a 10 minute mess of kids that aren't trained?

[garfield_cadets]

When we teach our fall or winter shows, we start with count #1 and don't go to #2 till it's done, etc. That means our first winter show we may only have 2.5 minutes on. But it will be totally full and quality. I personally don't like jumping around and filling in parts and having holes here and there. I've found that you often end up boxing yourself in to bad transitions or staging errors. Also, the kids don't understand how to connect the dots and perform straight through until very late in the season when they learn that way.

I still don't think you can teach a complete 10 minute show with drill and parts in 3 weeks. Of course, I'm assuming that you're doing things right and spending at least a couple hours each day on technique. And also that you're cleaning and taking the time needed to be at least presentable. Why would I want to watch a 10 minute mess of kids that aren't trained?

You are thinking on a high school beginner to intermediate level. Drum corps guard members are selected for their advance technique and quick ablility to pick up new material and specific technique.

Again, any drum corps guard member who can't learn a show in a month needs to be cut. Plain and simple.

And again, the videos are available (most of the time) for the members to come to move-in's prepared with at least basic knowledge of the book. Sure, changes will be made, but again, the ability to learn on the fly is stressed, if not expected of top DCI guards.

Edited June 20, 2007 by garfield_cadets

[Guardguy89]

I'll have to go with Garfield on this one,

we're talking D1 drum corps and not high school. Impact points (musically and visually) go a long way in helping GE at the beginning of the season. Guard work for certain major areas should be done by June. The best case being the end of the show. This is the last thing the judge sees before putting the numbers down.

I've had some of my guards do drop spins for the last 30 seconds of the show in early June - just so that there would be some visual insterest - and that the last impression isn't (wow they really aren't doing anything).

It's all perception. It's amazing how little work you can get away with in between transitions as long as you have the impact points covered. This was always my secret weapon during the early season :P

Later,

Mike

[quegrawks]

So you have 5 kids who marched Scholastic World Guard A, 15 kids who marched Open Guard B, and 10 kids who marched Independent A Guard C, all from different regions of the country.

Guard A focuses on classical music and ballet style dance and their work is very "trick" heavy with big tosses and lots of hand changes and generally very abstract. Open Guard B's movement is very modern and involves lots of flexibility as opposed to rigid ballet style movement, their work is very basics-oriented and generally done quite lyrically. Independent Guard C doesn't do much dance, as their instructor isn't very comfortable with it. As a result they spend a majority of time working on equipment, so their work focuses on impact moments and of course is very basics oriented with low tosses.

They should all be exactly the same coming into camp. Right? No time spent on getting everyone to move and dance the same way at all. They should come in and be given work immediately, even before they know drill and even if the music arrangement has changed 4 times since the first of the year, which was the last copy the caption head received. And their show should be completely done and clean by show 1 otherwise they get bashed on colorguard planet and drum corps planet.

As for equipment/flags-- you might want the guard to spin on 7 foots for the first number but find that 2/3 of your guard doesn't have the skills to control that large a piece of equipment, thus you need to change your flag concept... a delay. You think. Hey, props shaped like the & symbol would be cool for song 2, but... oops. the budget was cut and now you can't use the prop you wanted, or, at least not made out of the material you wanted, so you need to modify it. And who knew-- you wanted enough rifles for everyone to use it during song 3, but there's a delay for 39" white KING rifles because everyone wants them since they're the new thing..

..and ######, you wanted blue 2-way stretch velvet for the pants and burgundy lycra spandex for the tops, but... woah! What do you mean you're back ordered because 20 other guards are using the same color? I thought my design was totally original!!!

Ok. so maybe some of these are a bit farfetched, but stuff like this happens all the time. A company says they'll have your stuff to you by June 1, but oops, it doesn't arrive until June 10...etc. Or moms X,Y,Z said they could sew, but then Mom X gets into a car accident, Mom Y's machine goes all fubar...etc...

It seems to me that a lot of what's being said on here is coming from people who have never really marched or instructed corps and aren't basing their ideas on realistic constraints. Even in Div I (as well as II/III), you get students from all over who have different techniques that must all be made to look the same.

Or maybe everyone saying there's no excuse are those who have luckily never run into financial snafus and/or back orders on equipment and material.

Edited June 20, 2007 by quegrawks

[Jak]

It's true that I teach some beginning HS students, but I also teach some very advanced students. My approach is the same. I don't care how advanced or experienced the students are, they still need substantial time spent on technique. You think every kid in Phantom's guard comes in with that grace, style, and presence? Nope; doesn't happen. It is developed and crafted over time by training. Ask Adam if you don't believe me.

I'm surprised you would say "any drum corps guard member who can't learn a show in a month needs to be cut. Plain and simple." That's a pretty strong statement, and unless you're on the staff of a top corps, I wouldn't say something like that.

[garfield_cadets]

I don't see where anybody or any particular corps or guard is being bashed, it's just a lively discussion on the different philosophies that we have on the subject that everyone involved seems to have had enough experience hands on in this activity.

One should not have to list their resume in every discussion but yes, I have DCI and DCA corps affiliation, have been part of color guard 20 years as a member, fan and instructor, have been around drum corps 25 years, have instructed high school guards in 3 states, know band directors all across the country, have friends who have marched top DCI, WGI & BOA guards and know DI, DII & DIII drum corps & WGI (all 6 classes) instructors.

There are different levels of excellence expected of each class or division of guard. The pool of talent out there is amazing. I've seen some DCI guards do things that made my eyes pop out of my head. A less trained (individually) guard could not pull off stuff like that.

Top DCI guards are supposed to set the bar for color guard. They are the best of the best.

But we have gotten off topic, which is costumes/uniforms and equipment. And I stand by my belief it goes back to planning on the staff/capton head/instructor's planning & development.

Edited June 21, 2007 by garfield_cadets

[quegrawks]

Top DCI guards are supposed to set the bar for color guard. They are the best of the best.

But we have gotten off topic, which is costumes/uniforms and equipment. And I stand by my belief it goes back to planning on the staff/capton head/instructor's planning & development.

And they set the bar because they focus on technique so much. Show me a DCI guard that's made finals and placed at the top of their class without all approaching work and movement the same way. That's a HUGE part of planning for any guard.

As for costumes/uniforms... that is usually planned well in advance, but as a famous poet once said "the best laid plans of mice and men oft to go awry". There's were Plan B or pushing back the timing of Plan A comes along.

I'm so glad designers are more like true artists than they are like pop stars. If they all did things based on what others wanted to see, there's be little room for growth and creativity in guard. It would be like the 1940s-1960s all over again.

PS-- when are you getting yer ### to Dallas so we can spin and hang out together? :-P

Edited June 21, 2007 by quegrawks