erralston Posted August 7, 2005 Share Posted August 7, 2005 Shouldnt you judge how a corps did that night, rather than where they have been ranked or placed all season? This might be why some people cry "slotting"-- because some judges do judge based on what they have seen or placed all season. I'd say it's fair if she is not considering where they were placed prior to judging them.. Her job is to judge what she sees that night, not the night before. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I agree that the judging should be based upon how the corps performs that night. It should be a consistent standard for every judge, every night. It is just unusual that the 2 blips in scoring trends for Crown Guard were the 2 nights that this judge saw them. (See Louisville and Allentown below.) Coincidental, or difference in standards? 06/29/05 [Chesapeake, VA] 15.90 06/30/05 [Westminster, MD] 16.10 07/01/05 [East Rutherford, NJ] 16.40 07/02/05 [Nashua, NH] 16.50 07/03/05 [bristol, RI] 16.10 07/05/05 [beverly, MA] 16.50 07/07/05 [Erie, PA] 16.00 07/09/05 [Louisville, KY] 14.50 07/10/05 [Fairfield, OH] 16.40 07/12/05 [sevierville, TN] 16.30 07/13/05 [Dublin, OH] 16.90 07/16/05 [Kalamazoo, MI] 16.80 07/17/05 [Lexington/Winchester, KY] 16.80 07/19/05 [Pascagoula, MS] 16.70 07/20/05 [West Monroe, LA] 17.60 07/21/05 [Dallas, TX] 17.70 07/23/05 [san Antonio, TX (night)] 17.70 07/25/05 [baton Rouge, LA] 18.00 07/26/05 [Troy, AL] 17.90 07/28/05 [Kennesaw, GA] 18.00 07/29/05 [Murfreesboro, TN] 18.10 07/30/05 [indianapolis, IN (night)] 17.50 08/02/05 [Charlotte, NC] 18.20 08/03/05 [salem, VA] 18.20 08/04/05 [Warrenton, VA] 18.30 08/06/05 [Allentown, PA] 16.70 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howl711 Posted August 7, 2005 Share Posted August 7, 2005 That really is more than a bit suspect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Posted August 7, 2005 Share Posted August 7, 2005 I agree that the judging should be based upon how the corps performs that night. It should be a consistent standard for every judge, every night. It is just unusual that the 2 blips in scoring trends for Crown Guard were the 2 nights that this judge saw them. (See Louisville and Allentown below.) Coincidental, or difference in standards? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Had no idea she judged them those times. Interesting now that I can see their scores in that caption alone, and the progress they have had, until they met with Debbie. However, would we be saying this if their were a judge that scored them "too high"? They are scoring low in a caption (or what we think is low) all season, and then at a few select shows, this one judge has them higher... I don't want to blame the judges or whoever, but this brings up some interesting topics. Perhaps this particular judge is "too hard" on everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris ncsu Posted August 7, 2005 Share Posted August 7, 2005 Shouldnt you judge how a corps did that night, rather than where they have been ranked or placed all season? This might be why some people cry "slotting"-- because some judges do judge based on what they have seen or placed all season. I'd say it's fair if she is not considering where they were placed prior to judging them.. Her job is to judge what she sees that night, not the night before. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I think that somerville meant that it's a good thing that she doesn't consider past placements. Of course it's a good thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Posted August 7, 2005 Share Posted August 7, 2005 I think that somerville meant that it's a good thing that she doesn't consider past placements. Of course it's a good thing. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I know what somerville meant. But many on here think that scores are supposed to go up every night... :) If that were the case, DCI wouldn't be fun, and it would be extremely predictable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xmenjeffb Posted August 7, 2005 Share Posted August 7, 2005 I agree that the judging should be based upon how the corps performs that night. It should be a consistent standard for every judge, every night. It is just unusual that the 2 blips in scoring trends for Crown Guard were the 2 nights that this judge saw them. (See Louisville and Allentown below.) Coincidental, or difference in standards?06/29/05 [Chesapeake, VA] 15.90 06/30/05 [Westminster, MD] 16.10 07/01/05 [East Rutherford, NJ] 16.40 07/02/05 [Nashua, NH] 16.50 07/03/05 [bristol, RI] 16.10 07/05/05 [beverly, MA] 16.50 07/07/05 [Erie, PA] 16.00 07/09/05 [Louisville, KY] 14.50 07/10/05 [Fairfield, OH] 16.40 07/12/05 [sevierville, TN] 16.30 07/13/05 [Dublin, OH] 16.90 07/16/05 [Kalamazoo, MI] 16.80 07/17/05 [Lexington/Winchester, KY] 16.80 07/19/05 [Pascagoula, MS] 16.70 07/20/05 [West Monroe, LA] 17.60 07/21/05 [Dallas, TX] 17.70 07/23/05 [san Antonio, TX (night)] 17.70 07/25/05 [baton Rouge, LA] 18.00 07/26/05 [Troy, AL] 17.90 07/28/05 [Kennesaw, GA] 18.00 07/29/05 [Murfreesboro, TN] 18.10 07/30/05 [indianapolis, IN (night)] 17.50 08/02/05 [Charlotte, NC] 18.20 08/03/05 [salem, VA] 18.20 08/04/05 [Warrenton, VA] 18.30 08/06/05 [Allentown, PA] 16.70 <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Debbie is as fair and professional as they come!! Each judge is trained and they do bring in a background which could produce different results. You see a blip i see debbie being consistant. I know Debbie and know when asked to take a look at something she may have missed about a unit she always has done so. Sometimes she sees what we think she missed and sometimes she is able to tell us what we think is happening may not be clear. But, she is as honest and fair as the day is long. She is one of the best judges in the activity and yes she is one of the toughest. But to question her training or background is to not know her. Did i often fear seeing her ?/ YES !! Was she always professional ?? YES !!!!! Debbie is without question one of the very best in DCI and WGI . Jeff Bridges Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manoloblahniksabre Posted August 7, 2005 Share Posted August 7, 2005 (edited) What bothers me more than anything is the score itself, not the placement. There is no way that guard is anywhere down around to a 16.5 in one night. Now, if it was a 17.2 to 18.0, I wouldn't bother with the argument. Do I think it's odd? Yes, I do. Scores should fluctuate night to night. Will Crown be 3rd every night? No. But are they a top 6 colorguard? Absolutely. Fluctuation of nearly TWO FULL POINTS? Give me a break. They are obviously being punished for something, I've just never figured out what. She's scored Crown's guard low for years and I've just gotten passed being ######. She does not like them, no reason to get worked up over it. I don't know the reason, but if it takes me pulling recaps of her judging of Crown over other guards through the years, I will do so. I urge all of you to watch Carolina Crown's colorguard this year and tell me if you think they are a 12th place colorguard. The level at which they are pulling off extremely difficult equipment vocabulary is worth a 3rd place finish by itself, let alone the design. Are Cadets better? Yes, I think so. As Cavies and PR could possibly be as well. But this is just not fair. Now, I've went and said I wouldn't get worked up over it but have anyway. Blasted judges are going to give me a bloody anyeurism (this is probably spelled incorrectly). :) Okay, I'm not an expert, but can someone tell me how Crown guard could go from 3rd to 16th in one outing? Did anyone see them at Allentown? I saw them at Indy and they were fantastic. Their work is so much more difficult and their design elements good. What happened? What am I missing? I don't mean to offend anyone but....Blue Knights guard scored higher than Crown, what's going on? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Edited August 7, 2005 by manoloblahniksabre Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine Posted August 7, 2005 Share Posted August 7, 2005 Having only seen them in Indy I thought they were very good, clearly better than the 9-12 corps. But, maybe they were just really off last night (lots of drops, not quite together, etc.)? Anyone who was actually there care to comment? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
somerville Posted August 8, 2005 Share Posted August 8, 2005 Somerville (being me) did mean that Debbie Torchia does not consider "slotting" from previous events and as a result does not have an impact on her scores-which I do think is a good thing. But I have seen SCV and Crown and Madison over the past week and I stated that I was shocked that their scores flipped considerably in Allentown. Of course, it is possible Crown had a bad night and SCV had a terrific night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lance Posted August 8, 2005 Share Posted August 8, 2005 I don't understand how some people on here don't understand why so many of us think the Allentown cg judge was incompetent. But, I guess if you hate Crown enough, well... I'd like to see what would happen if their "favorite" corps' overall score dropped 1.6 points in 1 night, much less in an individual caption. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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