marshamello

Sorry, thanks for the correction as to the placement of the guard at this point in the show. But I still feel that this should have negatively affected the "demand" score for the guard and positivley affected the GE Visual - as things like this should affect any corps' score equally. The transition should, again, have NOT added much value to the demand score for the guard but SHOULD have added to the visual GE. I also feel that if only 1/4 of the guard is doing something, like in this transition, there should be less value added to the final score. I felt that the Blue Devils guards used to do this a lot in the 90's where they would have 1/3 to 1/2 of the guard featured up front pretty much throughout the show doing amazing saber and rifle work while the reamining 1/2 to 2/3 were lined up along the back doing generic flag work with small flags. Back to the 2006 Cavies, after the transition, the entire guard (eventually - gosh that took forever) ended up on rifles and then ended up doing almost nothing during the entire ballad other than some posing and hand stands; oh and a FEW tosses for good measure. And that was for a lot more than 30 seconds! Again, they added to the Visual GE, but there wasn't much demand to add to the guard sheets.

Then why have seperate music and visual GE scores? Just have one integrated GE score - but give it less weight than the two combined. Whether it happens today or not, I think Music GE should primarily be about the emotion, message and story that the music portrays and how well the corps gets that across. Maybe there should be three GE scores? One for visual that's just about the impact of the drill/guard, one that's just music about the emotions/story of the music, and one for integration that covers the "I see the music", "I heard the drill" aspects. Giving benefit to "I see the music" and "I hear the drill" in today's scoring system ends up giving double the effect of the integration of the two with less impact from each individually (and becomes more about your drill writer than music selection) . This is one of the main reasons for today's less emotionally impactful shows that get the audience out of their seats less often then the past when seen live and sound sort of lacking when listened to on CDs later (like most of The Cavies' shows of the past seven year IMHO).

Great article! It's nice to see that drum corps has always been an agent for positive social change. Just as corps, for the most part, where accepting of members from different races back in the early 70's, they have been accepting of openly gay and lesbian members as far back as the 80's (from what I've read on this board). It truly shows that music is an international language that unites and breaks down boundries.

Let me remind you of what you wrote. Yep, that's right, you DID put those words in my mouth!!! Unless your use of the word "nothing" has some meaning other than that found in Websters.

I don't know if a simple x% music, y% visual (no matter what the breakdown) will really change things. While it is supposed to be 50/50 now, I'd say there is a LOT more visual influence in the Music GE score then there is music influence in the Visual GE score. More importantly than the music/visual breakdown is the GE/execution breakdown. THAT's where I think the most positive change in the scoring system could be made. I think execution needs to get a much larger percentage of the total score than it does today. Plus I think that execution has to include a much larger reward for the diffulty aspect. One of the major violators of this I feel is color guard judging. Just look at how much time The Cavies' guard did nothing but pass rifles onto the field, sit on the sideline while three members stretched the box shape the corps was in, etc. this past year. The total content of their show resulted in a significantly less total amount of difficulty than any other top eight corps so how did they score so high? The simple answer is that they got beaucoup points for the GE they added to the show. But most of those GE points were already given under the Visual GE score and should NOT have made such a significant impact on their guard score. I feel that the same happens way too much in the Music GE score, with too much influence on the emotions the judge feels from the visual influencing their scores for music GE. I still think the music GE judges should all be blindfolded!!!

Nowhere did I say that the entertainment factor had nothing to do with reduced show attendance. It’s interesting how quickly you get incensed by someone not knowing that you qualified the comments you made in this thread by some previous comment you claim to have made in some other thread but then turn around and put words in someone else's mouth! Somewhere deeply imbedded into other threads you may have tempered your comments by acknowledging the MANY other reasons for the reduced show attendance, but your overall history has been to voice quite an extreme opinion on this topic (and just about any other topic). I agree that SOME corps increasing their show design to better "appeal" to the average US citizen could assist (in a small way) in increasing the attendance at shows. I refrain from saying “entertainment” factor as that it too individually defined. However, I still feel that there are MANY factors outside the control of DCI, the individual corps, show designers, etc. that have a more significant affect. I think we need to spend more time listening to the new fans that have been joining our ranks over the past ten or so years (unfortunately for many old-timers, a good number of these are bandos) to see what THEY think is entertaining; make that appealing. THAT'S the kind of show designs that should be rewarded in order to ensure a future and, possibly, some growth in the ranks of both marching members and audience. You and I will get too old to climb the stadium steps and die off. To ensure its health and continuance, the future of the activity has to be focused on the more recent generations of marchers. Do we really want the activity to continue so that future generations can participate in it, or do we want to create a dinosaur that will eventually sink into oblivion? Isn’t the later a bit selfish?

I guess that was OK becasue it was artsy fartsy with a groove!!

That was also for The Cavies, Phantom, The Blue Devils, Bluecoats, and Crown to mention a few. But some do have selective hearing. I love the leaps people take to try to justify their opinions. There are MANY reasons why the attendance at drum corps shows is down since its heyday. One of those being that there are less corps - which is also attributable to many reasons like the fact that every church and veterans group no longer sponsors local corps, there are many other activities for kids to be involved in, drum corps is not the only way for kids to travel around the country these days, the increasing draw of video games and computers, etc., etc., etc. Some of these same reasons (increased entertainment opportunities, increased other activities that kids are involved in resulting in the parents attending those events instead of drum corps, many more/diverse options for families to spend their vacation time/funds, etc.) are the main reasons why show attendance is down. Heck, the amazing growth of interests like extreme sports, soccer, blogs, "travel teams" in the traditional/local sports arena alone draw a large number of kids aways from the ranks of drum corps. It's totally inaccurate and does not help find a resolution for the decline by trying to make it sound like the move away from the kind of show you personally define as entertaining is the entire reason that show attendance is down from the 70s and 80s!!!

Is this the "Molto Ritmico" movement? I listened to a short clip on Amazon and it does sound like an exciting closer idea!! Haven't been able to find a clip of Ticheli's "Vesuvius" - anyone know of a online clip anywhere? I also wonder how a rework of John Adam's "Short Ride" would work. I loved The Cadets' rendition of this piece but always felt it would work better as a closer. But possibly too abrupt of an ending?

On Feb 19, Hoppy wrote in his blog: "We have the closer --- Tuesday I will write notes, get to Jay, and we will be on our way." I can hardly wait to hear what this will be. But until they are ready to announce it, let's have some fun by suggesting closers for this show based on the theme and music selected so far. So, with Symphonic Movement and Blue Shades already in the show (and the theme of "This I Believe" and the idea of parts and the whole), what would YOU do for a closer?

Spirit again - still can't recall a single song or drill move.

I'm amazed at the number of votes Blue Knights are getting. I thought their 2006 show was one of the most amazing shows since Star's last few years.

I like it! One of the problems they have been having recently is that the shows haven't held together musically and sounded like four separate pieces played one after the other - a real detriment in the current "everything needs to integrate" mentality of judging. Having one central piece that everything hangs off of will help. And what a challenging and exciting piece to use!!! I also think it is a good idea for them not to do the typical all-jazz show people will want/expect. They do need to throw down the gauntlet to say the new Crossmen (that still honors and maintains its base traditions, which do not include only playing all jazz) have arrived. Best wishes Bones!

Oh, and I voted Spirit because I cannot recall a single moment (music or visual) of their 2006 show. And I saw it six times!!!

It's too bad these polls can't be restricted so that you can only vote if you enter a response that says why you voted the way you did and reveals who you are. Then there'd be a lot less votes for the most hated and/or envied corps, or at least it would help limit that kind of behavior.

No rendition of this piece comes even close (IMHO) to Phantom '94. But then, very few shows come close to Phantom '94 in my opinion. That was on very clever show that should have received perfect scores in both music and visual GE!!! That was a thowing babies kind of show!!

No attack, just stating the facts. And he started going on about how much he'll hate The Cadets 2007 show IF it has narration before they said they were using it. So I'm just interested in his reasons for being so gentle with Blue Stars when he was so brutal with The Cadets. Fair assessment and fair question.

Interetsing how since this is not a Cadets thread, you are NOT going on and on about narration - and we're already up to page three and numerous comment from you. Yes, that's correct, Blue Stars used narration last year. Do you know whether or not they are using it this year? I have no idea what their plans are but shouldn't you being going on and on about how it will make this a totally unbearable show for you if they do? Why aren't you hijacking this discussion? Hmm, interesting. Can't you just hear it now... "POWER - the power of the horn line ... the power of the drumline." "GRACE ... the grace of the danse ensemble."

How silly. Nobody is denying that the Bluecoats were better than The Cadets at finals last year so stop the whining! It is even more silly to say that it is "coincidence" that The Cadets were consistent in each year's score for the past 23 years. That consistency DOES indicate a level at which the AVERAGE Cadets corps will place but it is not a GUARANTEE of placement. This WAS an off year for them and had it NOT been, they WOULD have placed more in the 95.5 - 98.6 level and beaten the Bluecoats. Now, if they end the season for the next several years also in the 93 range, THEN they set a new expectation that they will likely place in that range until some consistent improvement is demonstrated over a number of years. Now if the Bluecoats end the 2007 season with a score of 82.5 I will also say it was an off year for them and that on a typical year (based on recent history) they would have beaten The Colts. And then, The Colts beating them would be in part The Colts being strong (or at least consistent) and in part the Bluecoats having an off year.

add to that: 1984 98.0 1985 98.4 1986 95.6 1987 97.9 1988 96.1 1989 95.6 1990 97.7 1991 93.7 1992 97.0 1993 97.4 1994 97.7 1995 97.2 Now, catch MY drift (and the drift of what others have been trying to say) ... if a corps has a record like that (with only one other finals score lower than 95.6 in 23 years, then a large part of Bluecoats beating them in 2006 was due to the fact that The Cadets had an off year for both show design and corps talent (a lot of first time drum corps marchers). That does not take away the fact that the Bluecoats had an amazing year (for them) and have been on a great path of growth. It does say, though, that had The Cadets NOT had an off year, they would have at least been battling it out with BD for fourth and not have been beaten by the Bluecoats.

Just wondering why the interest in that particular period of the Crossmen guard history?

Is there anyone out there who heard the ensemble performance of this at the last camp? Just wondered if you could speak to the percussion writing for Blue Shades and any comparions to previous renditions of this song. Thanks!

Surprise corps - stronger/better out of the gate than recent years 1. Glassmen - Robert Smith already solved the problem of the music book not having enough impact, the return of Sal Salas adds the final ingredient they need to return to former glory, dropping the "we're proud of being boring" mantra of the past and putting out more entertaining shows in the past two years have put them on the map as a corps that talented kids once again want to join 2. Crossmen - Less competition for top talent in area (as compared to NY/NJ/PA area and being the only Div I corps in Texas) - enough said Surprise corps - not as good out of the gate as recent years 1. Bluecoats - I think Crossmen will pull more top talent from Texas than people think (along with other corps doing the Texas talent two-step), expectations are high for this corps and I just don't think they have the creative talent to live up to it 2. The Academy - here again I think the creative design end will be their nemesis - they won Div II last year primarily on talent but couldn't compete (IMHO) with the creativity, complexity and difficulty of the show design of The Spartans and ECJ - this will be more evident against the big boys of DIV I, especially when they are trying to top the likes of Southwind, Colts, Blue Stars, Cascades, Mandarins and Pacific Crest - and that's only their first hurdle

And I further agree that 40 vets would have been impressive had they stayed in the NJ/PA area based on placing out of the top 12 in the past two seasons!

A large part of Hoppy's arguments about adding other instrument voices has centered on expanding drum corps to allow for more kids to participate (woodwinds players who do not want to have to learn a horn or drums or guard skills to be involved in the activity). Adding other brass instruments would not really help attain this underlying goal. While I don't agree with including woodwinds for the change it will cause to the sound of drum corps, I commend his desire to expose as many kids as possible to the activity. Too bad most people get so caught up in the method he proposes to reach the goal rather than coming up with alternative ideas on how to keep the unique drum corps sound while finding ways to expose more kids to the experience of being in a corps. Here's another example of where every aspect of the message gets lost because of people's personal opinion of one aspect of the message or of the messenger himself.