BigW

I learned never to stick a fork in a corps and call them done many years ago. Fran, you, and I have all been on one side or the other of that fork from 1980 to 1983. The closest I've come was with MBI in 2011 after the Bucknell show. Their charge from then to Labor Day- extremely impressive.

Regarding the choppiness, BINGO. FAR less money to to get rights to use "excerpts" of a piece of music for "educational purposes", which is I believe how you do it. The other dirty trick is to find the right people who don't charge money or charge very little. Don Ellis stipulated in his will not to charge a cent for the use of his works if they were for educational purposes for example.

I believe Archie also did the Camelot themed show in the pre-DCA era as well. Making things fit was more like what a competent DJ will do for his air shift- try and make sure the music in every set between commercials flows smoothly even when it all is really different. The percussion solos were a big help in those transitions, and also gave the horns a break.

Gah! I knew it was one of those religious movies from that period. Selden Cadets Alumni perform that one in concert, and many if not most of them are Sunriser Alumni. I do consider it one of the **best** moments in Alumni Corps when it's performed. It's very unique and real quality.

George Zingali referred to that as a "Carol Burnett Show", Fran. A bit of everything fun for everyone. He went on to say in 1984 that the Carol Burnett format was just fine as long as the selections complimented each other and went well together as a whole.

Heard enough recordings and seen enough videos to have a feel for it, though timing and such, I just didn't have some of the details down. I did do flag pres as a kid in HS competition before I joined Westshore in '79. Jim, I'm thinking what makes you feel like everything is so chop 'n bop is that the presentations, while they do have a logical beginning, middle and an ending that is well defined as musically complete and satisfying, are just very short in length. Maybe a minute and a half or quite less in some instances. Don's comments are well-taken. There does need to be a feeling of musical completeness to a segment of show, one would think. That's where the arguments begin. Some arrangers and composers may THINK it's "complete" but it's not really as much as they think it is. It may be a bit off topic but is somewhat related since we're talking about design from yesterday to today. Some of the issue is some designers tend to arrange the music to fit already created drill design, rather than the way it used to be, which was to design drill to established musical arrangements. I think that's how things end up sounding incomplete and unresolved in many instances to quite a few people.

Yeah, seem to be seriously surging as of late, after certain DCPers had already stuck a fork in them and declared them done.

Take a look at some of the selections listed in the PAL show, Jim- Some of them are very short pieces of music even before Sasso would have started to arrange them. Speaking of, his arrangement of "The Lord's Prayer" from the movie "The Robe" that the Selden Cadets alumni play today- very short and to the point, VERY good. When their conductor says it holds up well today, it's an understatement. It's very good Brass Choir writing, period. Thanks for correcting my format. Hard to believe time for 2 percussion features, but again, if they're short and to the point, why not?

By "So many" how many are we talking about, Jim? Think about the format, and correct me if I'm off on this: Fanfare off Side 1 Goal line Opener Production Concert Flag presentation Closer/Exit Throw in your percussion feature somewhere in there, and even at one point a Horn feature, maybe as a second production. From what I heard and seen, the Fanfares are pretty short. Still, are we talking somewhere around a 12 minute program in this period? Still gives you somewhere around 2 minutes per piece of music, which should be enough to make the selection feel complete. Especially BITD, when they used a lot of pop tunes, just get rid of all the verses to cut the time down from the typical 2 minute 30 single to 2 minutes or less. Another thing that may make it feel disconcerting to you is this: IIRC, part of the regs in that earlier period of time was that the corps had to march within a specified tempo range and would get penalized if it varied beyond that. A lot of really strange canoodling of pieces resulted where you'd recognize the piece in there but it would really sound goofy. Especially stuff in 3/4 time. Nowadays, esp. with Bands, shows run around 7-8 minutes, barely enough time for 3 segments. Unsure what DCA minimum tomes are now, but I'd think most corps run within 15-20 secs max over minimum. Why? You truthfully don't get more credit for more content like you theoretically should or could, and it's more stuff to have to learn, more drill, etc, more to clean. Remember having a serious and good discussion on that subject in '92 with Mike Longdo. Learned that years ago and when consulting on one bands design process I impressed that upon them, scores went up for less show the next season pretty dramatically. Just some different thoughts on the whole show design issues you bring up, man. Effective and efficient use of allotted time has always been very important no matter what era you're talking about. Too tired to continue, but... there was also the factor at one time where DCA stopped judging performance/execution after the gun so corps could lay out and get crazy on effect only and not worry about how clean it was. Still, you didn't want to overrun too far whilst playing your brains out. Making me think too much for 6 AM Jim. Time for bed.

Just thinking at work about some of those WCU DCI performances. Freelancers did Chicago's "Introduction" as part of their program one of those years, and it was a daggone fine Frank Dorritie arrangement IIRC. Got my mind off of work, THANK GOD.

Fixed.

Ditto. I have to get up at 5AM Sunday, but after that settles down I can get serious bunk and pool time at a friend's house.

Dude, just come. You'll figure out who I am, we'll talk Euphonium shop. My Piston Rotor Bari's in the back of my wagon if you want to give it a go for the experience. And experience... it is. It ain't my early-build 321S lemme tell you. Lemme know, I have a busy schedule, I'll get there early.

Well, Reilly is "Local", that might help. A lot of the crowd IIRC will be the kids and Directors from the WCU Summer Music camp. I did two of those in college, one as an attendee and one as a counselor to get to go to the Director's clinics for free and get some pocket money. Learning from Pete Emmons, Zingali, Mel Stratton, was a great experience. The show was also pretty good BITD. Saw Dagenham when they came to the US, VK in their prime, Freelancers, and the list of normal DCI culprits. Hopefully the kids will respond and enjoy it. In some ways a tougher crowd than Reilly is used to but they're up to it. Ironically, IIRC, at least some of the better known Reilly members came up through Junior organizations like the Osmond Cadets BITD. Hopefully, they'll have fun and so will the crowd. That's what doing the Alumni gig is all about.

True. The loss of many of the competitive organizations that used to do their season previews at Serenade really made a difference then. Westshore, Blue Coats, Crossmen, Cabs, Bucs, I have to be forgetting some more that appeared at least once. Also, USMC, USAFA and USNA appearances rocked as well. Heck, the Alumni corps were almost a novelty at my first one in 1979. Looks like sequestrations killed most of those appearances of the military corps for this year. Unfortunate.

True. There are few students of history. I guess I'm one of the weird ones that was always curious about the older stuff, even BITD. Neidiger had a pretty extensive collection of pre 1970 vinyl he'd break out and we'd listen to (even an old Pittsburgh Rockets show Jim Kirkwood was featured in), and Rook has/had a copy of the original Longshoremen taken off a 78. I really like listening to the older arrangements on Frank's podcast because there's stuff I can learn from those. I'm always learning from everything I can listen to.

I like the idea of the jazzys. My back could use one right now.

Personally, one of the things I like about the reviews is that everyone brings their experiences to the table, and everyone is different. I do perform with Jeff with Westshore Alumni- and drive him crazy in the process, but we do agree- if you're part of the evening, scored or not, it's part of the event and there should be recognition. If some folks just want to cover the contest itself, that's how they run, and I also respect that. You need to write about what interests you and what you feel comfortable about writing. When Jeff mentioned what happened at DCI East/ aka "Eastern Classic", it doesn't surprise me. DCI seems to be in a quandry about Alumni organizations, and I've seen some comments out there from some DCI fans that are negative. Heck, even the way the G7 initiative document intimated Exhibition units were "Filler" was bad. I guess it's not "Filler" when they use a Cadets small ensemble playing "Candide" to cover the time at a DCI contest.... I know the Cadets have had Alumni performances but I think they're tied to making money for YEA!, IIRC. Then again, I see that pic of Mike Boo with the Cavies Alumni and that joyous smile on his face when he was performing, and you go from one extreme to another with DCI and what they seem to think. At least DCA and the DCA fans "get it".

Ray, I was grilling Sunday and had the '83 DCA album on blaring on the patio as I was getting the Bockwurst and Knackwurst ready, and the show wasn't as bad as yah describe it, art least from the music end. I wasn't panicing and trying to hit the stop button or anything. Some very listenable moments, actually.

Your definition of "most" is... interesting. Had Nokesville not have been rained out... every Open Class corps would have a number right now. As it is, 11 of the 12 have a number. If Nokesville had not been rained out, 9 of the 13 Class A corps would have a score right now. That's 69 percent of the competitors, at least if I did my math correctly. Last I knew about the word "Most", that usually means a fairly sizable majority. I counted on my fingers and toes, and 4 out of 25 doesn't look like a sizable majority last I knew. From the looks of it, "most" have either competed or would have by now if the weather had been better. As for 'nothing matters'? It depends if you define getting some comments and reads from early enough in the season to make necessary changes to improve the program or to help focus valuable rehearsal time on the more important things that need to be repaired and cleaned as "nothing". I always thought that was at least "something". Someone is using a different dictionary than I am or lives in the DC Comics Bizarro universe where the winner gets the low score. I find it entertaining.

Give 'em hell Tom. Keep up the good fight, eyes on the prize. You'll be fine.

Let's throw in maybe a stingy panel vs. a more generous one....

You tellin' me he rolls with the Dark Side of the Force, Luke? “Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.” Know this person I will by his red Light Saber?

A 12 point bump could happen at the lower end of the scoring spectrum for several reasons. If everything came together in several aspects, why not? You tell me.

Maybe something altogether new can come out of the region. It would take some serious work and infrastructure. There were more than just those 3 corps, even the Greece Cadets and Mighty Liberators on the Junior end of things. A lot of corps in one area like that.