BigW

I know less than 6-7 years ago I was sending Dave double tapes IIRC. You know, that comment I made on the C2 thread said a lot about I think our Corps and people like Dave who mentored us. When I saw that word 'fear' that whole thing popped right into my head. Especially when I'm thinking of that 1982 Grand Prix when they really did try to scare us. If there WAS fear, it was fear of badly disappointing Dave or Frank or getting Eric honked off. But that's a WAY different kind of fear. Or a more serious fear Larry wasn't gonna give us enough time to eat. I used to half-kid Larry BITD and remind him we marched on our stomachs. I guess it's obvious nowadays I play better when I'm not hungry.

I can tell you that's part of where I was going in talking about 1982 in DCA- certain elements did fear the change and took steps to try and stop it. Those who embraced it and adapted continue to exist today. The main culprit of the resistance, hate, and fear never really recovered from it and isn't around now. Things seem to be a LOT different now in that way regarding the competitors. This, I like very much about them.

Dave did judge off and on until a few years ago.

This isn't meant to poke you in a mean or negative way, but it's what I thought in my head when I read the word 'fear' in that context. I never fear excellence. I deeply respect it and work insanely hard to try and match or exceed it when I see it or compete against it, but never, ever fear it. I would hope to God most or all of us were also taught that way, teach that way, and are also thinking that way. I have too much of Dave Rohrer, Frank Dorritie, and Eric Kitchenmen's mentorship in my head and heart, I guess it shows when that thought popped right into my head. I think the DCA corps that are looking to be as great as they can be- which is the essence of the activity- think this way. Jeff and I in some previous C2 thread pretty much said- relax. Let the corps compete and shake it out on the field and let's see how it breaks down. I know we and others have said how many times they would only have one vote if they make membership. As much as some of what goes on in YEA! bothers me, I personally decided some time ago not to let that get in the way of enjoying C2 if they produce a strong product that stirs the blood. I'm such a geek I have a conductor's score of "To Tame The Perilous Skies" I occassionally study here in detail to keep my mind fresh and thoughtful. It's all gonna be good. Sit back in the stands and watch it all happen. I think it's gonna be interesting and good.

Well put, and as Frank P. said- members have enough to worry about in their own front yard than worrying about someone else's they can't control. We'll see how the entire picture falls in line when people go head to head on the field in the heat of battle and get to see entire programs and packages presented. I agree with Jim to a point- More good corps with good shows that are well performed are a positive for DCA and for the fans. I care more about scores I guess-- but the better the quality of competition is, the better everyone will be to try and do well against one another. It's why I feel rather up about the season. More corps bringing more serious 'A' games to the field. It improves the activity.

Well put, Tom. The on stage head count from the video and the audible instrumentation didn't match.

Again, I felt George was genuine. It was about the excitement in his heart to see it all come off. His energy and enthusiasm was obvious in the clinic. The original comment mentioned "whole staffs" doing this now. In my experiences at DCI contests with George in the stands- it was just him with Two-Seven and Cadets, no one else. And truthfully, people got it regardless. I'd say the crowd reacted in many cases before he did or with him without a prompt. I'd imagine the Scouts last year needed no prompts from the staff to get their positive reactions from the audience.

Yes, George could get worked up in the stands, but it was genuine reaction for his kids. I was lucky enough to be cliniced by him in 1984 and he was extremly specific about buildnig moments into the show that caused people to react. I can tell you he didn;t need to cheerlead with Cadets and Star, people *got* it. Again, you make serious points about why it could be deemed obsolete- but the members of DCI and DCA are both saying this is worth doing. that's the bottom line here. They obviously believe it's something of value to them. I have my educated guesses as to why, but I'm hoping Mike Boo or someone more in touch with DCI's pulse can answer with some more direct knowledge and authority on why.

A staff should not have to teach an audience when to applaud. A well-dsigned program will have obvious moments when it happens. And when it does not happen, obviously, the well designed moment that the staff thinks is so brilliant is obviously not. Zingali and Prime didn't have to cheerlead to get the audience to react to their moments. As for on-field judges- usually they move when the corps move for serious reasons: -to get out of the way for something coming up so they're not run down -more importantly, the judge is being asked to sample the entire group they're expected to be evaluating. You stand still in front of one group too long, you're not sampling, and you will be called on it. So, when a corps is tacet visually-- you will move around to hear the various sections and evaluate instead of parking your can in front of one section for a long period of time if you're evaluating brass. You want to stop judges from interfering with the shows- you need to get them off the field and onto the track. Then.... the front ensemble drowns out the brass and blocks views for the visual person, and also prevents a good view and listening line to the battery. Then, complaints would arise because the judge isn't listening or out of position. Better yet, take them into the box, which is already crowded. I've been on-field most of the time for 28 years and well over 150 contests. My age and some minor physical issues are moving me more to the box now. I know the deal and the games. Obviously the DCI members want the on-field adjudication to continue for some good reason. DCA moved some judges back onto the field some time ago because their membership desired it. They could save money by eliminating the on field panel. Yet, they have not. There have to be very good reasons that the members have felt there is value to this. I agree- if the show is engaging, you wouldn't care one whit about the guy trying to do their job as best they can in a rapidly changing evironment where they're trying to cogently provide insightful commentary, listen carefully, be situationally aware, and trying to avoid getting run down and potentially hurt a kid or 5. I dare you to try it some time. Maybe you'd be a bit more understanding and sympathetic. Get down there and give it a whirl, and.... best of luck.

Found a couple candid pics from Hanover on my camera, downloaded them. If they're any good I'll put them up here once I can get them into my photobucket....

Was that the year Westminster did that goofy computer show? I liked them the year or two before that when they did Holst. Have a good story concerning that show...

I think there's a grandfather clause on vehicles that were never built with Seat Belts installed- like a Model A Ford for example. If the van wasn't built with them- and I bet it wasn't.... you'd be okay. The UPS Package Cars (What we call the Little brown trucks...) have had them from near forever- and we've had guys fired for not wearing them, even to just back up and repark them in another space. Tell your Brown (another UPS-speak term for the delivery guy) you know he drives a Package Car. He'll be impressed....

Back to the Grand Prix. The wins had us charged up-- but we all knew the show was a real test. Good Dave Rohrer story time. During the season, Dave was always worried about our quality. There were things we'd worked on in practices really hard with Dave to get the way it was supposed to be. Serouously detailed things in the phrases or accents, everything was about being exact, we understood this. There's more I want to talk about with that whole thing philosophically, but it can wait. Dave would get really worried during performances. he'd be right off the font sideline on field level, and sometimes, his hands would start conducting on their own in the parts we'd spent serious time on. I would think that's how Dave would personally describe what was happening. All I know is it always made me smile internally, and I guess it was a reminder to stay sharp and on top of the book for me. Understandably, it was viewed as coaching- because it was.... and Dave was warned. To stop himself, Dave would have to wear this light tan jacket of his and put his hands as deep as he could into the pockets while we performed. He then would dance around, hands in pockets bouncing around inside the pockets with this really concerned, intense look for parts of the show. I can imitate this pretty well. Later on, I had to do the same thing with my coat when I was with LD and MHS. I didn't have to be warned, I knew my hands would start moving out of habit, so I took a page out of Dave's book before I caused trouble. Dave also was big on keeping cool. "You worked hard today, we got a lot done, you know what you need to do and how to play, go out and do it, no heroes, etc!" Not really so for the Grand Prix. "You know what I want you to do today?" "Yeah, Dave- Kick AXX!!!!" Dave then shakes his head emphatically and bounces up and down, so NOT Dave... "NO! I don't just want you to Kick AXX! I WANT YOU TO ***BEAT*** AXX!!!!!!" We went NUTS. I don't think anyone understood or really understands just how much of a hold Dave had and really has on us. Dave never ever yelled at us before that. He just asked us to do stuff the way it was supposed to be done, and if it took 2 seconds, fine. If it took 20 minutes, fine. It would get done, and it was up to us how hard we had to work at it to get it done RIGHT. No yelling, just hard work. So, Dave threw the horn line into a foaming at the mouth tizzy before we went on. Seeing as what happened afterwards, he did the right thing whether he knew it or not. I have to go, to be continued.... Eating and hydrating before work is essential at my age and in that heat. I have to say- if not for Corps and rehearsals Fairfax, my work place would be hellish. There are times it's HOT, and tough, but I know inside I've made it through worse on the practice field, and I make it.

GOOD. Darien Lake is a perfect venue to reach the audience you're trying to target. Reach out vis the net and social media, build your fan base.

Glad to hear Frank is doing okay. I see Steve now and again. And Fran as for the clapping, if someone woulda told Larry, we'd have stopped. The last thing we'd want to do is honk anyone off after we saw what the Hurcs did for us, and I mean for us. I do have to wonder if that letter had never been sent to us in 1979 whether the corps would have really gotten much better. It was a powerful motovator. If DCA would have wanted serious compeition every week, they shoulda scheduled us to go up against the Hurcs every week.

Speaking of Ricky Lee, He's one of the reasons I write reviews on DCP. A big reason. I did plan on explaining that too, because something also happened during this season that kinda irritated some of us.

I assume you mean a YEP-202-MS? Their shoulder convertible model weighs in at about 7 pounds. The Yamaha website doesn't give weight on the one I think you want a weight on. I would assume a similar weight. System Blue's claiming a much lighter weight for their hybrid. What, I don't know.

You were right on. I know I said earlier it was a fair try by DB amnd sincere. The trick is to figure out venues, just local ones and build a fan base not familiar with the activity, and use the net to help with it. If they can do that, they have a chance. I read where The Statesmen are going to do some gigs at Darien Lake- that's the kind of thing to do just that. It's perfect.

Loved Ricky Lee enough to want to try and catch him and throw him back down the hill.

Well, even the Matadors get mixed up in the story. By the time I joined the corps in 1979, they were on a downhill slide they never recovered from and were never a threat to the corps. I'll admit we were an opportunistic bunch that took advantage of other corps' struggles to keep fighting our way to the top. That being said, in 1977 and 1978, the Matadors were 4th, and had nothing but upside. They'd fought hard all season in '77 and beaten Sky and a very good Crusader corps. They fended off pushes from the Hurcs and Crusaders again in 1978 and surged at the season's end for 4th. I know Tom Peashey has said the '77 and '78 Crusaders were very good corps, I saw them as well, I agree. I know there was talk during the period about the Matadors putting together a run to take it all. They were extremely entetaining, people adored Jim Centorino and Ritchie, who were just flat out wild on the field, and the shows just struck a real chord with the fans. I know without the internet, we had no idea the Matadors were struggling in '79 until they came out late and were scoring well below us, which we found out via DCP and DCN, and didn't see them until Scranton where we beat them soundly. I know we did NOT expect to be able to beat them in 1979, and it was unexpected gravy. When we started towards the Grand Prix, with 4 wins in a row, three of them against at least one or more of the big names in DCA, there was a discussion within the corps about how supposedly the Matadors had been intimidated heavily by a certain top end DCA Corps and it caused the corps to flinch. Rumor? I don't know. I can't say. The thing is, we took this seriously, and that is what mattered, whether it was the truth or not. And so other people who read this don't think I'm talking about their corps, it sure as heck wasn't Sun, Reading, Crusaders, or the Cabs. The Cabs didn't know what in God's name to make of us a lot of the time, but they were never mean to us. We were kinda like the nerdy kid brother that's goofy, but was still a good guy to them. They wouldn't have invited us to hang out at Post 199 with them (more on that later) if they didn't like us. Yeah, the Hurcs talked trash with us and this has been well discussed. It also wasn't them. We'd shown we could beat them before, and I know for certain we weren't afraid of competing with them. In fact, I think when they were at a show with them, we pushed a lot harder. You can figure out who. I ain't sayin'. I will say that people I have known and worked with from this organization are all good people that I have liked a lot. My guess is they had a fair number of people who caused problems for the corps on board and were jerks and troublemakers in this time period. All I know is that there was a consensus within those of us who talked about it- if they were gonna play games with us, we weren't gonna flinch. We would stand up for ourselves and act right, perform hard, not start anything, but if something started, we'd not flinch. We were at the point where I know we believed in ourselves enough not to let that bunch of "folks" bully us. There were games played by this corps at The Grand Prix. An interesting show to go to from a young performer's standpoint just because they sold Sangria. It became mroe interesting for the Westshoremen in 1982, more later....

I think George H with Cabs alumni is the oldest right now. I think he passed Harvey but I am unsure exactly how old he is. I know Frank P. and some of the guys would like me to meet him, and I will try to this year at a show. A real grand gentleman. Not 'old', young at heart by all accounts.

Because of where you were in the retreat formation, you may not have seen what went on with the corps that was immediately to our right at the Grand Prix. The baris sure as heck DID. Pretty unforgettable, the ultimate in your face lack of discretion buncho crapola I've ever seen out of another corps. You may not have been in on the Matadors conversations, either. Remember, I kinda floated around in a few circles, mainly with Rook, though, sometimes with Mike and Bruce.

At least half the fun, Jeff. You'll see why.

It had nothing to do with the street time, Ben. We were in a totally hostile stadium at that contest. There was also quiet talk within the corps about some things that could happen to us before the Grand Prix that I was privy to. I need to get something to eat and go to work-- but as a hint, I will say there was a lot of quiet discussion with some of the membership about the 1977-1978 Matadors and things that supposedly happened to them during those seasons. Rumor? Fiction? Truth, untruth, whatever it was, it was very, very seriously discussed.