BigW

The answer is also dependent on era. I think Frank D. has done a fine job explaining this and why things changed over the decades. The answers here are also quite good and fair. The sheets are radically different, and have been for many years as well as the judging philosophy.

Feeder programs are tricky. I can tell you BITD that Kennett had an unreal, one of the best in the US period Elementary music program that the kids never seemed to catch on after that. There are a couple of good MS feeder programs in ToB where the kids don;t seem to make the right step into the HS. Part of it in one case I'm more familiar with is the one director wants the HS gig and undermines things. The cat does a good job as one of the MS directors but frankly would be an absolute tool running the HS. The REAL problem is that several programs have MS programs that have really put a torpedo into the HS program. I can think of two top end ToB units off the top of my head that have struggled over the years with that issue. One has taken some incredibly strong and I think very gutsy and 1000 percent correct steps to fix it. Some of you know who I mean, I'm certain. All I will say is this: When I came to upstate NY in 1989 to run a MS Band, the HS guy had 30 students. When I left in 1991, he had about 65 coming in because I stressed to the kids to continue their musical growth and experiences, that what they were doing was a preparation for HS. That is anathema to many MS administrators. They view Instrumental music as a club like model building and Pinewood Derby cars to dabble in and goof off in, and not to be taken seriously- the "Middle School philosophy". The better MS Instrumental Music programs still view it as a stepping stone/developmental program to the HS, the traditional "Jr. High School philosophy" and some of these *(@^*(@%^ administrator clucks fight that. Now... when you compare the Instrumental Music program to the football team, which is obviously a feeder program to the HS program, 100 percent.... then they squirm and start babbling a bunch of weak-minded excuses. When you have an administration that supports kids learning and succeeding in ANY activity, not just sports... notice how good the bands are in that district. And by the way... if you want to great example of a small school with a VERY good instrumental music feeder program into their HS right now, go no further than Camp Hill. Their Elemntrary/early MS person does a FANTASTIC job teaching the fundamentals of musicianship to every student, including the basics of percussion mallets and battery so when they get to Mr. Z they're ready to take on the real challenges. Oh, and the same with the chrous, where a lot of the band kids are also. They know musicianship and have had it taught to them in the elementary school as little kids, and built on for years. From what I knew, Middletown also has/had a pretty good feeder system with well trained kids and good teachers, Ben. The problem was the vehicles given those kids at the HS. At LD, it was a goven the Middletown kids were far more talented as musicians, we had to beat them with a stronger work ethic, better staff who helped to catch the kids up on the years of weaker teaching in the MS in particular, and a far better show. Out of 6 years, we beat them 5 of them, the last lost by .2 with a bad senior class filled with duds and bad leadership we couldn't overcome. That's when my hair started turning gray BTW. Seriously. Went from 9th to 23rd in one year at ACC's. Hmm, well. Didn't take me much to go ballistic on bad school administrators, did it? I had my fill of them. The kids aren't the real problem in most cases....

I have that on VHS. If you can ever find the documentary "A Head of Time", in it you'll find out Hank Levy himself went to work with BD for at least a bit on the book. that video and accomanying CD are absolute dynamite of you like this show- or Hank Levy and Don Ellis, and I'd think anyone who is a fan of this show does. This show is also one of the ones that are in my Wagon's Monsoon CD deck when I need it to lift me up.

No suprise when they took top field brass in prelims. The only bad thing was that this show was up against three juggernaut shows that year. 93 was a really great year for DCI, a lot of very exciting music books that were very accessible with a lot of technical stuff, too. And yes, their Bari guy was absolutely wonderful.

Absolutely! I think people should get out if they're able to get to a contest. This season will be a really strong one for DCA. On that we both can agree, I would think!

"Oops. I missed that really great moment in the drum book when I got ran over that you're trying to tell me about that woulda put your number into the next box. Maybe I'll catch it next time."

I chose Ventures- Winning a DCI Class A title against some very good co-ed competition speaks volumes and was a remarkable achievement. Especially when you add in the disadvantage of not having the Instrumental Music Programs to get them started when they competed versus their American counterparts.

I know YEA! has all the shows in this region except the simulcasts and East. I just wish someone else hosted a show out here....

Didn't know they did a West Coast swing last season. Not a bad thing. Did they have to go West because the shows out this way are drying up?

And lost his Hash marks in the meantime... Yah know, Rodinaro blew one of the cardinal rules of Journalism with that, LOL. Find out the facts before yah say something incorrect that causes entire movie theatres to boo.

I'm not into predicting, I'm in agreement with Ream on that. There are a lot of variables in play before the season starts, but I view FC as having a lot of the positive kinds of variables you want to have in your pocket to have a great year. I was part of a group that was under the radar in the off-season even with some nice performances at pre-season concerts and pretty much stood DCA on its ear when we weren't expected to at all. I learned to never take anything for granted from any corps after that in this activity.

Thank you, Jeff. The truth escapes this person. Reality hasn't set in for this cat. And it would take major corporate funding and sponsorship to make this happen. To the point where the ckorprations would make their mark. It's not that much of a stretch to see the Coca-Cola Cadets, the Red Bull D and B Corps, or the Monster Energy Drink Green Machine. It would not be a further stretch for those sponsors to push to make shows more "acceptable", likely along the lines of a Super Bowl Halftime Show. Perhaps bringing in a real celebrity for the corps to back up for the program or just for the championships. The corps would likely be forced to evolve to be more like College Bands by the sponsor/owners. Also Judging would likely fall by the wayside or be done by phone, an applause meter, make it more like TV. Or, bring in celebrity Judges for the contests! I'm sure Howard Stern would do just fine in the new environ. And yes, the normals think it's just band. I guess this individual hasn't gotten the "one time at band camp" jokes from everyone he works with. The comments about someone drafting a baritone sound like a great fantasy/pipe dream, and I want to know what's in that pipe. Look. Yeah, If I was a Football Player or Wrestler in HS and was a 2 time All State Champ and never defeated for 3 years in District or Regional tournaments, I'd have gotten a teaching job in something at my old HS and wuold be a local legend. Doing the same thing in Band, and yeah I did just that, gets you bupkiss. It's a fact. It needs to be shrugged off anf acceopted by some people, but they crave acceptance by the rest of thw world. No one would be drafted in a pro Drum Corps, either. There's SCADS of talent out there already PAYING a lot of money for the priviledge to march DCI World Class. 300 kids trying out for 30 spots for the Cavies' percussion battery for starters. We can go on. They can find talented kids left and right out there who would be willing to work for minimum wage or less to do this. It's not anything like Pro Basketball or Football. To put it mildly, it's some kind of sad delusional juvenile pipe dream from someone who wishes the world was different from the grim and stark reality of the facts, along the lines of the crazy ladies who have the bumper stickers on their SUVs that schools should get all the tax money and the USAF should have a bake sale to fund their bombers. Yah know- it's not a bad thing to be different and off the beaten path unless you decide that conformity and acceptance by the mainstream is essential in your life. Dare to like what you like regardless of whether it's the mainstream thing. Dare to choose for yourself and not worry about this silliness....

Bang. Target, cease-fire. Well put.

This isn't the airplane, E-Mail, or any of the above you list. This isn;t some kind of ground-breaking scientific innovation like those at all. Absoulutely silly and inane to compare them to try and sell your pitch. Don't try and call me a nay-sayer, just a practical person. You go find the well-heeled person willing to invest the tens of millions it would take to pull this off and we'll see.

In short, I had a happier and much more enjoyable experience in 1984 in 15th place than I did in 1983 when we were 4th. Wait till I get to 83. The gloves will come off as much as I can allow them to protect the guilty. And much of it had to do with people who came in for that season and that season only and pretty much turned us into a marching Telenovela...

I know enough of what you speak now to understand that issue. Thank God I pulled the trigger to start the Alumni show 3ish years back and not the person who forget on stage I had the gun. I will say this was not the case with that individual I speak of from BITD. Not a critical spot by any means. A replacement could have been found and would have made everyone in the corps a lot happier.

Also, I think a lot of these discussions and attempts come from a deep seated desire from many of us to have what we do more readily accepted by others and not thought of as nerdy/geeky/stupid. I've accepted that and can happily live with the fact it's not mainstream and never will be. I think more people need to stop worrying about being socially accepted as mainstream and just enjoy what is there and what we do regardless of mainstream acceptabce.

Heck, we can't get a sustainable Professional Women's Soccer league in the US and the WNBA is questionable. The only reason the WNBA exists is because of NVA backing. I have to wonder if any of those teams are profitable. This would be a for profit business. That changes the rules of the game innately. The closest thing we had to this was BLAST! and it had some success, but it ran its course. This kind of connects to the whole Edge thread. You'd need a huge fan base willing to turn out and spend serious cash on tickets and have enough top end venues and compatitions to make this worthwhile and remotely profitable. There's not enough mainstream interest, and I would say there will never be. The Mainstream barely understood BLAST! and supported it....

That's rough. I can make a connection and understand gutting it out for the corps till season end. My guess is he didn't know until he went out there for the first show. Regards to the other individual, I think they did know. Too much experience to not know. And Fran's right. People were only starting to really understand things like hydration and sun protection then. I take pride in the fact I never lost one of my band kids in parades, always made sure to keep everyone shaded for as long as possible and hydrated, also kept a close eye on the kids, sometimes parents/staff assigned sectors of the parade block. I know now maybe I learned a lot of practical things in Corps that were as important as the book learnin' I got at WCU. Problem is most School admins don't get it. They may as well be judging The Edge on TV. BTW, it's not like I dislike lowbrow humor. Look up Trailer Park Boys episodes on YouTube. I love those guys....

I never wore shorts either, sometimes a hat, the goofier the better. Always jeans. Actually it wasn't bad we did- kept the sun off our legs and prevented burning in an era when getting burned was no big deal and was part of the things one put up with because no one knew any better. Keeping from getting burned helps keep body temp down. I drank a XL Jumbo Gonzo Gulp sized Coke for breakfast at Mickey D's to caffinate myself so I was awake before every rehearsal, with my 2 Egg Mc Mother-*(%^*#^ers and a Hash Brown- a true breakfast of champions. All that hair kept your ears and neck from burning, too. Jeff-- this fellow who passed out all the time- I know if I were going down after every show- I know I'd have asked to have myself checked out by an MD- that is if my Mom and Dad didn't get me there ASAP when they found out about it, and it would not have been hard. I'm sure there would have been a show they attended or Rook would have said something out of serious concern. Heck-- I went to an MD for lesser issues from corps- finding out I was allergic to my own sweat- and there I am marching, LOL. We got that dealt with, thank God. All I know is that IMHO, if you're going down like a submarine after every show from physical issues at the rate this unnamed individual was- and if I were like this person, I have a feeling my Doctor or my Parents, if not myself would have at best made the decision to have retired after the season was over. Or even got ganked during the season out of concern for my well-being. Which all leads me to wonder if it wasn't a rather screwy cry for attention from the unnamed person. I know that's a rather not very kind thing to say, and I'm not saying that about the guy Jeff mentioned by any means, he'd know the deal in that situation-- but I have been shaking my head over that person for decades. As much as I love performing, and I would say it would be hard for someone to make a claim they love it *more* than I do, I'll gladly say they can love it as much as I do, which is a lot-- If I was told or saw that it was seriously affecting my health like that, I'd give it up. I don't need my Mom, Dad or Boom worried I'm gonna keel over with a bugle in my hands. I'd feel terrible if that happened. I have a serious disconnect with anyone who'd keep doing that stuff.

Unsure on evolution. Is his show on Sateallite radio evolving? I don;t have a satellite radio subscription so I couldn't tell. As for the paycheck comments, I know he laughs all the way to the bank- But really, I know his going to satellite so he could do and say as he pleased (is it evolving? More just being able to do what he really wanted to do.) Was supposed to revolutionize that industry, but I'd say it took off more because of good quality music stations and other programs as well as the tie ins into new cars. How much is he making from Sat Radio, how much does he make for this show? Money talks. I've seen Private Parts read some of it, I'm more sympathetic to him than perhaps you may think. As for the guy getting clobbered in the hoo-hoos- hey. Anyone familiar with the movie "Idiocracy" knows that'll sell.

I still remember that parade when Ben parked himself. It Was HOT. NASTY HOT. And the then-new black gabardine unis were of no help. We were all pretty concerned. He looked bad, it was HOT, we knew carrying those tymps in any weather wasn't beer and skittles, and he was not the type of guy to drop over... and we know a couple of people who when it went over 80-85 degrees or for Afternoon sunny shows swooned big time/all the time and got carted off to the EMTs- don't we? Not mentionin' any names.... I only came close to going down once- Fairfax. And that was after 5 people passed out, Drew was running around in panic from person to person, Eric was getting more and more frustrated, and I just remember starting to sway from side to side and feeling a bit blurry while Eric was getting ranty-peturbed and thanking God he told us to get off the field immediately when I think he realized it wasn't a case of mental failure or a lack of will to do well, that physically we were all gonna go down from the inferno on that field. Back then, I remember only one corps that had half a handle on that kind of thing. The Cabs. I remember watching them rehearse at Carlisle with Rook- and maybe you too, Ben-- and they had that big bucket of ice water on the sideline, a dipper, and a bunch of wet towels around it- guys would go up and wash their faces with the wet cool towel or dip some water over themselves when they felt washed out and go back on the field. I do remember we thought this was way too sensible an idea and wished WE had them.

Everyone always says you're a touchy-feely kind of guy, now we know why! More seriously, in that era with the 2 step interval, which could be measured by the elbow- to elbow contact with the horn players next to you at times- a lot of the stuff was done by the touch/contact to get intervals right. I know Garfield in the pre Zingali Era was marking peoples elbows and arms for the contact points early on in season practices so they could establish consistency, etc. Crazy stuff.

Seriously, Jeff- I don't even have a digital converter. I'm not an anti-TV crazy or anything- I just sorta went away from TV years ago. I was only watching it for Babylon 5 and for weather reports when I needed to know if stuff was cancelled. I go to friend's and my parents for Auto Racing. I'll be hone for Indy on Sunday. As for Howard, I have thought he's funny in his own way- but again- changing his stripes after decades of prior practice? I can't buy it. Kinda like if Chairman Mao joined the Tea Party. I can't buy Fartman as a guy who knows what real musical talent is. And I like Fartman. Just not on a show like this in that role.