BigW

I also wore Black and White for Dom. Sue noticed but I think she knows I'm broke.

Just got back from Dom's funeral. I think he'd have been happy seeing many of us there talking shop and catching up. He valued the camraderie of this activity so much. Westshore/NJA represented, and I was deeply proud of that. And remember- if someone has a bad day on the field, "Take off a finger- not the whole hand!" God Bless yah, Dom.

Hope to see you and Kris, Jim. Always good to see friends.

Yeah- I went to 78 DCA as a spectator and saw 77 DCA on TV. Rook really had to sell me when I talked to him at District Band- he said the corps was going to get better- a LOT better. He was so serious and sincere I believed him. And I think we did have a pretty big reservoir of absolute frustration after 81. You know, I listened to 81 a few times recently with a judges' jaundiced eye and the corps was pretty decent. There wasn't anything in terms of horns where I was left shaking my finger at as a really bad issue. I think it was just that the show was so scattergunned in conecpt, trying to hit everything musically and that it didn't give us any kind of identity that hurt us. At the end we weren't that far out from Hawthorne. Frank's recent article I think hits the nail on the head about what was going on. Westshore had serious long term goals, that had started several years before that everyone bought into and sincerely believed in. When that goal got stopped in 1981, Maybe it discouraged some of the people who didn't come back. Very understandable. I also think management quietly asked some people not to come back. Those who stayed wanted that long term plan back on track. Period. I note here that Ben and I pretty much said the same thing- we wanted to beat someone we hadn't before- just one of those corps, and get 4th or better in 1982. In other words, do what was needed to achieve our goals. when we had the win at Clifton thrown into our laps, it wasn't what we expected, and a big thing to deal with for a lot of us. We were still pretty young people for the most part.

Somerset and Musselman have wonderful pie. BITD Pittston had some fantastic Italian Wedding Soup and Haluski. Elkins' food is real nice too. Yah drive a zillion miles and get in there starved, you don't forget a good meal.

Maybe not every show. Doubtful, but there are things I still remember from that day I keep with me. Crazy, huh?

Question then-- I know it's a very solid concert mouthpiece, but are there any concerns about the more rounded rim for marching?

Question then-- I know it's a very solid concert mouthpiece, but are there any concerns about the more rounded rim for marching?

I'll see if I can make the viewing Friday. I'll be working Thursday evening unfortunately. Actually, I knew Dom for over 27 years. Used to house-sit for a friend who lived near him, used to walk my friend's dog past his house and always hoped he or Sue would be in to just say hello. I need to get ready for work, but the next part of the 1982 story will be the next contest of the season. Utica, New York, which involved a total brain blank-out on my part in the opener, Beer, the Thunderbirds, partying hard in a parking garage, and an important lesson from Eric after the contest for all of us. Back later, folks. Be safe, be well, huh?

Good question. Good retrospective on pre-1850ish brass instruments as well. The reason everyone connotates G with the bugle is because when the first corps were developed post WW1, they used military surplus Bugles and Drums, and the bugles happened to be in the key of-you guessed it-G. The bugles then evolved from the basic miltary bugle. Now, you mentioned the difference between the French Horn and Mellophone Bugles. There was quite a difference. take a look at this piston-rotor French Horn Bugle in G. Hopefully the link works: http://www.europeana.eu/portal/record/09102/8D8E59074FAC1032862935764972FC265C306C79.html?start=5 Note the bell flare and bell diameter is significantly different from a Mellophone. The lead-pipe also accepts a French Horn Mouthpiece, whereas the mellophone- with the exceptions of the earlier versions by Conn, etc. usually use a Trumpet mouthpiece or a Bach 7C "Mello", which is nothing more than a Bach Trumpet 7C with a slightly resized shank for a modern mellophone. I also have a hunch that the bore is slightly smaller for the French Horn Bugle. They really weren't used much. Piston Rotor bugles tended to be a bit beastly to center tonally, and the French Horns were near uncontrollable, even compared to the other instruments. However-- there are some people who did use them to great effect and success, and the two people I mention are very well respected- You may want to see if you can find a copy of the 1981 (maybe 1980) DCA Championship recording of the Hurricanes, where Pepe Notaro used one of these in "Swing, Swing, Swing". Ray Fallon, which I know comes on and off DCP would know more specifically about 1980 and Pepe's use of the instrument with the Hurcs. He was also well-known for his use of it with the Skyliners many years before. He's likely the most associated person with the instrument, and he worked pretty hard to tame the beast. The other person who would be very knowledgeable about the French Horn Bugle who lurks on DCP once in awhile is Danny Fitzpatrick. Won a DCA Individual title on a piston-slide French Horn bugle in the early '90's and totally blew everyone away with his ability and total facility on the instrument. Hopefully Danny reads this thread and he may able to help you more with any questions. I'm just one of those troublemaking Lead Baritones. I'm sure you know the type.

I knew Dom for nearly 30 years, and he taught me a lot, too.- sad news. God Bless you, Dom.

BTW, there are several "Digital Devils" CD's. Some overlap, I think. They're good to listen to on the Monsoon system in my wagon, and to think and reflect on. You listen to 1976 through 1986 you can hear radical changes in the activity. Writing, clarity, quality, all marked improvments in all areas of the activity. Changes in judging methodology, whether some people like/liked them or not really helped to push the envelope. That was a wave that hit everyone to varying degrees in DCI and DCA. Either you rode the wave and improved and developed your corps to compete with better quality and took more chances to make it happen- or you bit the dust. I can think of a couple of DCA corps that never caught that wave, eventually suffered pretty badly for it, and never got their mojo back. You couldn't rely on inconsistent judging supported by the tick system and hit or miss performances that either really clicked or didn't every week to claw out some success in DCA anymore. We were there when it all started to go that way. And now back to our normal program, 1982 Westshore. It's amazing how a lot of things have popped up that really remind me of so much of what we went through. Icarus, Alliance going inactive to regroup, Bush hanging on last season like we did in 84 to keep their corps alive. The more things change, the more they stay the same in many aspects. Ben really hit on Eric's philosophy with the quote about rehearsals. He had an enormous will and desire to be excellent in what he does, and really worked to shape us to be competitors, fighters, and to also desire to be excellent. Dave also had it as well as Frank, it just was more subtle. I still remember Clifton. I know we were all on edge, and really excited to be there. Westshore usually never got to go to the "prestige shows" in Jersey/NY/Connecticut. It was a prety big deal for us. A lot of us still remembered the snit with the Hurcs over the Fresh Air Fanfare in '79. I'd say we were pretty indignant about things like that. Maybe we weren't beating the old guard- BUT, we had beaten some of them off and on. We were kind of like a kid in college who comes back for Thanksgiving/Christmas and is still made to sit at the table with the 6-9 year olds instead of the adults. I don't know if it was as much about winning as much as wanting to be viewed as someone who deserved to sit at the good table for the holidays. We had a good perfomance the week before at Danville, everyone was positive there was a bit of buzz from that show, we knew we were very well prepared, liked our show, we were as good as our corps ever was in late May when we got to Clifton. The run was pretty tight. I know afterwards we felt pretty up about it, the staff was extremely satisfied with our performance, which took a load off my mind. The run felt right, and I think it was as good as we could've expected out of ourselves. The real buzz started at retreat. Word was leaking to us that compared to everyone else at the contest, we were dominant. I think most of us had just hoped to knock someone off- anyone, and scare everyone else badly. That was my thought, I think everyone else was thinking much the same thing. Then, Larry got cryptic when we were on the field in retreat, as Larry would do. He gave us the "just remain calm and stay at parade rest, come to attention regardless what happens" speech, which he only did when something crazy was about to happen. we started wondering, were we dumped, did we win? Larry just smiled and was typically Larry-non-committal. That's when we knew something was up. When they started reading everyone off but us, it was mind-blowing for us, especially when they announced we'd beaten Sky, which we'd never done before. Beating Sun also had us cranked- after their run the season before, we knew how good they could be, and we'd beaten them. But the Cabs? Fat chance we'd beat them in their backyard. Good night, good results, get on the bus and relax and fell good about second, etc.! Okay! Then, they started with the caption awards... which we won a load of. Still, beat the Cabs? Maybe that was why Larry was warning us. Maybe they got us in spite of all the loot. When they announced them in second- we practically went nuts. Frank was on my right, I was on the edge, and we were both crying. We'd actually pulled it off! For that night, we were the best in the world, and by over FIVE points!!!?!?!?! Then, we knew Eric wasn't crazy. We knew we could compete, and that we'd be rewarded if we just kept working hard and stuck to the plan. I still smile when I see that DCN issue with the huge headline that pretty much said- "EARTH TILTS ON ITS AXIS. POLAR ICECAPS MELT, HELL FROZEN OVER, WESTSHORE WINS IN CLIFTON!?!?!?!" A great moment. I figured we'd be happy to be 4th at the end of the season. We realized we had a crack at the whole enchilada, which was wild for us. But-- we still had MUCH to learn and go through. More on that later.

I can read the frustration in the anouncment, and the situation appears to be very difficult at best. It's too bad that the schedule can't be worked around to get the indoor people involved, or better yet to have indoor programs involving Alliance itself to get around the issue. I think there is a point about some of the later comments about risking embarassment by going out without a strong product- but I think I need to remind everyone that both options, going inactive or remaining active and taking your lumps, are both valid options, and have both worked well. Westshore went inactive in 1973 to reorganize and regroup as Alliance is doing now, and it took 4 years to get the corps back into finals, but it paid off. We had to take the field in 1984 after a near collapse, and we did it in six weeks, even rehearsing in a member's pool at one point. There was no other option other than to fold the corps entirely. No option whatsoever. We had to put something together or just walk away. Again, it took several years to get the corps back into finals, and I don't think anyone would say that taking our lumps in '84 (we did beat 4 corps anyhow!) was a bad move, since it eventually led to the 1996 championship season. It may take a couple of years to regroup and re-define goals and options, but I wish Alliance the best of luck. I'd hoped to see you in Annapolis on Labor Day, but I hope to do so in the future.

And yes, Derry Township.... Wasn't Boltzie (Bass Drummer early 80's) well known in the corps for his string of traffic tickets in the Hershey area? Speaking of, when the corps moved in cars from one place to another, that could get pretty crazy. When I had that Wildcat with the 430 in it, I know I was hustlin' as long as it was a straight line. The one thing I do remember was this. I'd be riding with someone or driving, and we were usually moving at a 'brisk' pace, and the next thing you know, a Ford LTD/big FoMoCo full-size sedan with Larry at the wheel would usually blow by you like you were Granny Smith coming home from church in her Model A. HOW he never got pulled over is beyond me. I think even Dad got passed by him at Warp Factor 85 and he told me about it.

Ben mentioned it earlier, the closest anyone ever really got to it was BD and "Pegasus". I do know when things changed in '82-- many of us including myself became serious students of BD and how they did things and aspired to try and be as much like them as we could in terms of excellence, quality, musicality, and grooviness as humanly possible. I still drive friends nuts with my "Digital Devils" CD's in my car, and listening to so much of it with Rook BITD, I still know all the percussion kicks in a lot of the stuff. The last show BD did that I really was absolutely sold on was the "Phenomenon of Cool", which was just a huge gas from one end to the other. Got into Brubeck in college when I acquired a large portion of my Uncle's Jazz collection on vinyl and hosted a jazz program on WLVC BITD. Most of my Jazz CD's now are a ton of Kenton stuff-- that, Chicago, and some ska...

You know, I've done the mouthpiece thing on 322 heading towards Hershey, thought of Frank, and looked off to the side for cops.

What Jim and Jeff said- steady improvements and reasonable goals, hard work, good management, and quality instruction/show design can lead to great things over time. Everyone laughed at Westshore in 1974- but the corps nearly pulled off a championship 8 years later. Always liked what I saw out of FC- keep doing the thing you do. Looking forward to seeing you this season!

EXACTLY. And good to see Frank caught us! And I also figured the Diceman picked Icrarus because it was so unique. I can tell you the corps really had trouble getting its arms around it hornwise early on. The one thing Dave impressed on us constantly was to "make MUSIC, not just play black notes on white paper!" That was the problem. We read the rythms, we played the notes, but we didn't get it, and we were frustrated. We were excited to meet Frank, and he comes in and pulls out this instrument that most of us were clueless as to what it was. "This is an Afuche, I picked this up on a trip to Brazil...." 30 years later, musicians are far more familiar with world instruments. That term wasn't even invented back then. There was stuff I knew from Eastern Europe (Tamburitza), but not from Brazil! The problem was that we weren't internalizing the groove and feeling it. I'd say mainly because we never had to play anything with that kind of groove before. Frank starts cranking away on the Afuche, *ts-ts-ts-ts* etc., and we then started to understand what was happening. The piece began to make musical sense to us. H-B also brings up the other point. How do I put this- there was a real resistance with DCA to certain changes back in that era. Frank always told us, when you fight the champ, you can't beat them by points. You have to knock them out cold. You can't rely on the judges to give you the nod. I'd say when Reading and Sun won from 1977 to 1980, they were just so clean, and so obviously beyond their competition that they did this. Anything different and not "playing the way certain other corps thought it should be done" was more or less heretical to many elements in DCA. If you weren't musically driving your tank through the buildings, over cars, and blowing up everything in sight, it wasn't the way you were supposed to do things. The problem was, it played into those corps' game if you tried to do that. Those certain corps did that well, and Sun, Reading, and Westshore weren't wired to do that sort of thing. Sun was kind of like McLaren in tha Can-Am racing era in their use of tried and true things when it was appropriate to use them, and intelligently introducing new technology when they felt it was to their advantage and knew how to make it work to win. They knew what ideas from both ends of the spectrum fit them well and how to make those varied ideas work for them. They knew when to turn John loose to get the crowd rowdy, they knew when it was time for the corps to lean back and howl to grab the crowd even more, but they also had moments they showed real thoughtful and subtle things. Reading had the big symphonic sound, great charts, and great leadership on-field as well as some College Mus Ed grads from WCU and Mansfield on horns. Westshore couldn't be any of those other corps. We just weren't mentally wired like them, and had we tried to be them, we'd have been pretty ridiculous to watch and listen to. We had to make our own mark and establish ourseles as unique and set apart from everyone else. Icarus did a lot to establish that, and I'm glad the Diceman liked it, because I remember some DCA stalwarts out there didn't get it at the time, nor did they want to because it didn't fit their expectations of what DCA was. There were some other things about the corps that made us musically a bit different and "odd" versus the more "traditional" DCA members, which I'll get to. I have to get up in 6ish hours, I'm racing today and you all know how I love to compete, whether I win or get pounded as long as I give a good effort.

Was good to meet Chris a couple of weeks ago- the clips of the corps look solid!

Oh, Jeff-- to get back to your Chapter coordinator work, yes- it keep you BUSY. One of the reasons why is the only real advice I can seriously give you- make sure anyone who bugs you gets a response. Even a "I don't know and will get back to you or get you in touch with someone who can answer your question" response is appreciated and valued. A little story- Was staffing a band in "another circuit that is *not* affiliated with a DCI corps" (I'll leave you guess) and the back of the Music performance sheets referred to "intrigue" a LOT. The staff who understood judging also agreed- what the heck was a word most closely associated with Effect doing spattered all over performance sheets!? I wrote a friend of mine who was one of the executives of the circuit asking for a better explanation so I could understand the philosophy and reasoning behind the sheets. NO answer. EVER. NO RESPONSE. Needless to say, it's really lessened my impression of the circuit, in addition to some of the other screwy things about it I observed. I know you know this with the experience you had in sales and customer service, just a personal thing as to why I understand how flamin' busy with it you must be.

I found a couple of online recordings of it, and yes, it's ambiance music, and very much what we'd call "New Agey" today. Jeff's right, it really doesn't punch anyone in the face- the thing is our version has more oomph than any other version I've heard, LOL.

I'll explain more about Icarus, and why it wasn't liked. But the Reader's Digest of why it was so controversial BITD was that it was musical anti-matter to DCA and some of our competitors, particularly the ones who believed things were and SHOULD always be LOUD. VERY LOUD. INCREDIBLY LOUD.

More than makes sense, Steve. Anyone who's used helmets for the past several years have done it for all the reasons we've mentioned. My guess is that it's a large part as to why why Blue Stars and Blue Coats have done away with them. And indeed, it they're black, all the more reason so they're accilmated to the heat and other issues. Nothing worse then rehearsing one way-- then you get out on the field that night, are already pumped and excited, and then you realize how HOT your head is, or because you didn't put a kerchief under your helmet or something, sweat's running into your eyes, ears and nose like a river, and stuff sounds different when you're trying to center the pitches on your horn and listen across the ensemble and think clearly. Speaking of Cincinnati, I was pleased to see your post. No spinny-spin-spin/hype-hype-hype, just the facts, sir, and the facts are all GREAT. An expanded front ensemble with improved instruments, and a nearly full corps personnel-wise. No spin needed to know that if everyone can find the 4-5 folks you need to fill the spots and if everyone has a positive attitude and work ethic, you'll have a STRONG season for your corps.

Yeah-- the brims do defect some stuff back. But not as disconcerting, this I know. You didn't have sounds resonating all around your skull with an Aussie. I was going to get to Icarus, but I'll wait till the Diceman weighs in. I have some good stories about that one, believe me. It's a Jazz standard, especially back when we did it. I had the pleasure of seeing Jon Faddis play it when I was at WCU around 84-85ish in a small combo setting. What a gas!!!

A personal think you for the podcast. I'm deeply flattered you thought of us guys before so many fantastic groups you could've chosen for great reasons. Question- why choose "Icarus" over the other show selections in the '82 program? I have my guesses, but I don't want to influence your answer. I'm really curious.