Penn State

The only thing in this post that confuses me is what is in blue. University of Wisconsin does not sell or permit alcohol on Camp Randall. From my experience Event Security does not allow items such as bags and beverages to be brought into the stadium. Am I the only only one who feels the above post just doesn't add up?

WOW, sounds very cool. would love to hear that

Bet you never played a Conn 16E or a Bach Mercedes mellophone. I haven't been able to pick up a Conn 16E yet, but it is myunderstanding the Bach was miles ahead. The Bach has a very nice tone but the intonation is horrible. The middle register is the worst with the 4th line D being impossible to play in tume w/o using the alternative fingerings. With it's flaws that Bach horn was still miles ahead of any G mello I've played (DEG 2 valve, Dynasty 3 valve G and F) ok, i know i'm being picky.....sorry.... :P

There is such a thing as a bad horn though. I will only comment on mellos. When I still owned my Bach 1105sII mellophone (produced by Yamaha). A friend who is a Crossmen mello age out and current professional trumpet player was unable to hit the top line F. She is a very talented musician. As many of you know, the very narrow slotting of the top line F partial was very narrow, a flaw of the horn. The Bach mercedes mello (original F.E. Olds model) is an overall superior horn. The new Yamaha 204 is the best mello to ever be produced. I've played Dynasty G and F and Kanstul F mellos, none of them come anywhere close to 204. G 'bugles' are very special, in fact I'm working towards becoming a professional contra player (USMC d&bc). G bugles are just not manufactured to the same standards as Bb/F horns. It's not that the manufacturers don't care theres just a lot more money to be made in the Bb/F market of marching instruments. Big manufacturers like Yamaha and King put more money developing their marching brass line then do the bugle makers such as DEG or Kanstul.

The Yamaha Xeno is true professional horn and yes it does have a hand hammerd bell. For a simple comparisson, the Xeno is Bach Stradivarious of the Yamaha line. A hand hammered bell will cause the sound to resonate differently than a stamped bell. Correct me if I am wrong but the Xeno is the only trumpet on the corps filed with a hand hammerd bell. As far as mellos go, I feel Yamaha has the best on the market. Check out the review of the 204 on www.midllehornleader.com

From my experience you'll be waiting for parts regardless who you buy them from. The only difference will be the Yamaha part will take a few weeks to arrive from Japan, while it will take King the same amount of time to make the replacement part.

From my expeience, I have preferred Yamaha. I do have to say the only ultimate marching brass horn I have played has been the bari. I felt the horn was stuffy and not balanced very well (valve cluster is too close to the bell). The Yamaha bari (I own one) is free blowing, compact design, and well balanced. I purchased the horn (and tested the King) at Nazareth Music Center, Nazareth Pa. One big reason I went with the Yamaha was the price, a few hundred cheaper than the King. Also the Yamaha was more readily available. I wanted a silver plate horn, the King in stock was laquer, it would take 6-8 weeks to get a new sp model. The Yamaha horn in sp was in stock in Yamaha's US warehouse. They told my sale rep it would take a week, it arrived in the store in three days! I love the horn, A few months ago I got the new Yamaha mello, by far the best mello ever made. But don't take my word on it, check out the review on www.middlehornleader.com

CONGRATS Penny!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Enjoy playing your new (Yamaha?) Marimba

Lee, LOVE the poster! Can't wait to see the corps set foot on the field this summer!

If you want to go with a Bach, def play test several horns of the same model or get a professional to do it for you. My understanding is that is the only way to make sure you don't get a 'dud'.

According to Dr Sievers the seasoned bell makers are back to work.

0A couple of my Blue Band friends march Xenos in jr corps. They told me the Xeno are just as good as the Bach Strads(Blue Band marches Strads, ML). My understanding is the Xeno is more consistent model to model. It wouldn't hurt to try out the Blessing pro trumpet or an Accent. I believe the Blessing horn is based on the original Bach Strad specs. The Accent trumpets are made in Germany. Marty, do you have a local music store you usually go to? Have you ever been to a Robert M Sides store?

I posted this on a thread on DCI, I certainly agree contras are for corps. Sousas aren't all bad, the Conn 20K is a pretty darn good horn. It's hard for me to compare the two right now. I have played a Conn 20K for the past 5yrs and played a Dynasty 4/4 marching tuba for 2 camps. What I have noticed so far: tone quality: 20K, fatter, rounder DEG, focused, very direct sound Valves: 20K, off set, short action <very comfortable>, welded metal valve guides DEG, standard placement, standard stroke, plastic valve guides, I have small hands and find it difficult to play with good technique (hand in a 'C' position) Intonation: 20K, low E is flat even when the slide is pushed in all the way, third valve slide needs to be pulled out, low C tends to be sharp. DEG, middle F (right bellow the staff) is very flat Bore: 20K, .734" DEG, .728" Bell: 20K, 26" DEG, 19" weight: 20K, 50lbs DEG, 24lbs The 20K is very free blowing. Range of the instrument is very even, eg a low Bb sits as well as the Bb two octaves up (Bb on top of staff) DEG plays well from pedal Bb up to around C on the staff. The upper register, D on the staff, and up, partials are not as clear, stuffy. The 4th valve helps with the intonation of low C, F and B. The Deg does play well but not as good as I like it to. Features i would like in a contra/marching tuba I would def want off set short action valves.

IMHO, American musical instrument manufacturers just have not been making the cut lately. The arguments mad against Yamaha horns for not being durable, I have heard the same of Kanstul and King horns. 7 yrs ago when I purchased my first mello, I was dead set on purchasing an American made horn. I ended up buying a Bach 1105spII. I played a Bach my school owned and I really liked it. At the time I had no idea the 1105spII wasn't any where close to what the Bach Mercedes mello I've played and liked was. When I finally got the horn, it wasn't what I was expecting or wanted, it was also made in Japan! I ended up buying a Yamaha horn with a Bach stamp. It was a good horn but not what I wanted. I kepted it though and recently parted with it. But b/c of that mix up I gave Yamaha products a shot, when they came out with the 203 I tried and loved that horn. I now am a proud owner of a 204ms (I use a Denis Wick 2 piece). I also own a Yamaha marching bari(sp), incredible instrument. I play tested a King ultimate marching brass this past summer and sis not like the feel of it, found it to be 'stuffy' (Bach 5G piece). The only American horn I currently own is my tuba a Conn 5J, BBb (Bach 24AW megatone gp), it was made during the UMI erra. Should always try horns before you buy one, and buy the one you like the best.

Sorry, but have to agree Yamaha's marching percussion is better. The extra snare on the (snare) drum really makes a huge difference.

I posted this on a thread on DCI, I certainly agree contras are for corps. Sousas aren't all bad, the Conn 20K is a pretty darn good horn. It's hard for me to compare the two right now. I have played a Conn 20K for the past 5yrs and played a Dynasty 4/4 marching tuba for 2 camps. What I have noticed so far: tone quality: 20K, fatter, rounder DEG, focused, very direct sound Valves: 20K, off set, short action <very comfortable>, welded metal valve guides DEG, standard placement, standard stroke, plastic valve guides, I have small hands and find it difficult to play with good technique (hand in a 'C' position) Intonation: 20K, low E is flat even when the slide is pushed in all the way, third valve slide needs to be pulled out, low C tends to be sharp. DEG, middle F (right bellow the staff) is very flat Bore: 20K, .734" DEG, .728" Bell: 20K, 26" DEG, 19" weight: 20K, 50lbs DEG, 24lbs The 20K is very free blowing. Range of the instrument is very even, eg a low Bb sits as well as the Bb two octaves up (Bb on top of staff) DEG plays well from pedal Bb up to around C on the staff. The upper register, D on the staff, and up, partials are not as clear, stuffy. The 4th valve helps with the intonation of low C, F and B. The Deg does play well but not as good as I like it to. Features i would like in a contra/marching tuba I would def want off set short action valves.

It's not that they don't care about putting on a clean performance; they just don't have 3 months to make it perfect like DI corps. The members are college students, they have classes, exams, practice, and there are days when the university won't let them practice. It's also no easy feet to work with a professional production company. PSU Blue Band opened Marc Jacob's 2006 fashion show (fall 2005) kicking off fashion week in NYC. We didn't get the music they wanted us to play until a week before the gig and the performance wasn't finalized until the day of the gig. It wouldn't surprise me if the Marching 100 prepared several differ sets or variations of drill for the Super Bowl. Also bands get some pretty nice donation checks for gigs like this and to get referrals for more gigs you need to keep the sponsors happy. Can't maintain a high profile college marching band with out a lot of money....

I don't agree with it, but pre-recorded music is how the Super Bowl does it now. Maybe their afraid the band will drown out the singing. Trust me on this, The Marching 100 can really play, and play really well B)

From an athletic training stand point( Coach and Athletic Trainer), Their schedule is very good. Two hour meal break is appropriate, having time to eat and digest the food is never a bad thing. As for practicing inside, that is very, very smart. It gets extremely hot and humid in Florida. Inside practice during the hottest part of the day is not only practical but safe for the members. Not all the cold Gatorade and ice towels in the world prevent you from succumbing to heat illness. Why knock 'em for using the facilities they have? Bet you’re jealous

Actually, FAMU's football team plays on the road alot against DI schools. FAMU football isn't all to great, DI schools only schedule them if FAMU will bring the Marching 100. The marching 100 also performs a new show for every football game. Their former director Dr William P Foster, who is considerd to be one of the finest marching band directors in the world. This is a very good article on the Marching 100(http://www.famu.edu/oldsite/athletics/football/news/marching100.html): Florida A&M "Marching 100" The Florida A&M University "Marching 100" Band's motto: "Perfection in music, highest quality of character, and precision in marching," is the very essence of a program, which is quite simply world reknowned. Having begun in the late 1800s not long after the very founding of Florida A&M itself in 1887, the band program is not only the most visible trademark of the university, but is the ultimate hallmark of one of the nation's finest collegiate music programs. WHITE DIRECTS BAND INTO NEW CENTURY... This heralded band program begins its' fourth year this fall under the visionary and passionate leadership of band director Dr. Julian E. White, who succeeded the legendary Dr. William P. Foster in 1998. No stranger to the band, White's ascension to the director's stand was the end result of years of hard work and dedication, especially since he served over a decade as associate director to Dr. Foster. The soft-spoken Jacksonville, Fla. native, is a man whose gracious demeanor belies a fervor for excellence in all aspects of a band's performances as well as a zeal for each band member to develop as a whole person. White is a product of the "Marching 100" family, having played in the band as a student, before going on to a singular career as a high school band director and music teacher before returning to FAMU to join the band staff in the 1970s. THE FLORIDA A&M UNIVERSITY BAND STAFF Director ...................................Dr. Julian E. White Associate Director ..................Mr. Charles S. Bing Assistant to the Director .....Mr. Shelby R. Chipman Director of Percussion .......... Dr. Shaylor L. James Arranger .......................... Mr. Lindsey B. Sarjeant Director of Flutes ................Ms. Dennine A. Mathis Director of Clarinets .................. Mr. Wallace Clark THE MARCHING 100 - "A MODEL FOR BANDS" From humble beginnings, the "Marching 100" has evolved into a group that does more than play music. They dance as well! In fact, a 1990 publication, The Black Perspective In Music, devoted an entire chapter to the FAMU Band. Author Jacqui Malone stated, "The Marching 100.... not only captures the halftime spotlight wherever its' musicians perform, it also serves as a model that black and white collegiate bands across the country try to emulate." The program began in 1892, under the direction of P.A. Von Weller, an excellent German musician who was the school's director of vocal and instrumental music. In 1910, Nathaniel Campbell Adderley organized Florida A&M's first marching and concert band, enhancing the school's already-growing tradition for providing good musical instruction. The Adderley family, which produced the late revolutionary jazz saxophonist Julian "Cannonball" Adderley and jazz trumpeter Nat Adderley, who both attended FAMU and participated in the band, had two generations involved in the school's music program during its' formative years. President J.R.E. Lee (1924-44) is credited in large part with setting the tone for moving the band program in the direction that it travels today. During his tenure, he toured with the band to recruit students. Their fame grew to the point that they were the first Black band to play for the traditionally White Gasparilla in Tampa, and the first to broadcast over Florida radio stations. They also performed during the State of Florida's Centennial festivities. In 1930, a band alumnus, Leander Kirksey, took charge. He established a scholarship program for band members, helped start the FAMU undergraduate program in music and started the first instrumental music program for Black high school students in Florida. Then in 1946 came "The Law," the affectionate nickname students gave to Dr. William Patrick Foster, the former band director and current chairman of the Department of Music and Bands at FAMU. An organizational genius, Foster fined-tuned the band's structure, allowing the program to develop steadily through the 1950's and 1960's, establishing many "firsts" along the way. One of the most significant changes came in the early 1960's, when the element of dance was added to the band's routines. Dr. Beverly Barber, a professor at Florida A&M and director of the school's dance company, choreographed the band's first dance routines. From that lead, the band staff took over the choreography and later, the imput of student creativity was added in the formulation of routines. This student imput, which continues today, keeps the band's routines up-to-date. In fact, the Band's continued popularity is due in part to its' dance routines, coupled with its' smooth blending of traditional and contemporary musical standards. The band displays a style based on high-energy levels. Whereas most college marching bands do what might be called a glide step, the FAMU band marches with what Dr. Foster calls "points" and "drive," with the net result being that each band member looks like a drum major. The band today, just as in its early halcyon days under Adderley and Kirksey, is still a great attractor of students. Because the band reflects so many of FAMU's values about discipline, tradition and style, it is considered by many to be the single most important recruiting tool for the university. Its' popularity has spread far beyond the confines of the beautiful Florida A&M campus, the City of Tallahassee and the State of Florida and the accolades and invitations for appearances are far too numerous to mention, but here are just a few: In 1992, Sports Illustrated declared the "100" as "the best college marching band in the country." The band has appeared on television over 30 times, during halftime performances; has participated in the Olympics (1984 Los Angeles Summer Games); has been the subject of feature segments on 20/20, 60 Minutes, P.M. Magazine, while appearing in three commercials. In 1985, the group was honored with the Sudler Trophy, the marching band equivalent of football's Heisman Trophy, by the John Philip Sousa Foundation. In 1989, the French Government chose the "100" as America's official representative in its' climactic Bastille Day Parade, celebrating the Bicentennial of the French Revolution.

Obviously a lot of you like the Dynasty marching tubas. Why? What makes these horns so superior to the other manufacturers models? How is the intonation, valve action, upper and lower range of the horn, balance, craftmanship ( do they hold up to abuse well), etc...? I would love to have a knowledgable person answer the same questions as it pertains to the Yamaha.

Wow, this thread has really been going down hill fast..... Two very good HBCU bands that are worth checking out if you haven't seen them, Florida A&M and Bethune Cookman College. FAMU is the only HBCU to receive The Sudler Trophy. The current steps being used by the HBCU bands does hold deep meaning to the members. Dance moves you see on the field come out of Traditional African Movement. HBCU bands perform new shows for every football game. Every member and director is striving to put the best performace on the field every week. A one week prepared show will never be as clean as a show performed and cleaned for three months. A top notch jr corps will never be able to put on a finals quality show with only one week of practice. I don't feel anyone is advocating drum corps becomes 'Drumline'. I would love to see a HBCU mb style show from a corps, (pref. from a new corps though). I would also love to see a chair step, even just for 4 counts, on the field in the summer. Here's a thought, DCI could approach the director of one of the top HBCU mbs and discuss the possibilities of their university fielding a corps. I would like to see such a new corps maintain the traditional qualities of an HBCU bandm but in the confines of DCI(honeslty, besides instrument restrictions there isn't much else). DCI could provide initial financial backing, while depending on the group they might be able to get major corporate backing. I do agree with Hop on one thing, the activity needs to expand to stay alive. BUT singing fat chicks, picnic tables, and electronics are not the answer. Encouraging new corps to grow and mature, esp. with different styles will bring variety to the competition field and give more kids the oppurtunity to march.

It is very true in hot weather the F will become sharp. The rest of the horn will also become sharp, prompting the main tuning slide to be pulled out, thus bringing the other partials into tune (or closer to) while flatening the F. This also an interesting fact you may not know. I've been in touch with Dynasty's Dan Getzen about their products and he informed me that all their horns are developed in side at a constant 70F in their Texas facility. The horns don't hit the field 'till the corps use them. My only intent was to share my initial impressions of the Dynasty horn. It is a good horn that does have flaws. All horns have their own little quirks, that's why I also included the flaws of the 20K. Could you please expand on this, I'm having trouble following you: "The upper register in the Dynasty will open up as you learn to relax your air through the horn instead of force it through."

I can't speak for every college program, In The Big Ten, all bands teach and stress different technique style. The biggest marching funamental style that is emphasized is the high step, since most organizations do not use it.

Big Ten bands are expected to perform at a certain level. When a Big Ten band doesn't perform at the expected level, band alumni will be dissapointed. The same would go for corps age outs.