pawn shoppe heart

My personal request to the both of you: Can we please squash it before this topic gets closed?

Hate to add fuel to the flame, but the poor sportsmanship was a disappointment! I don't care who you are or where you're from -- there's just no room for it, especially of that nature.

I could be wrong, but I'm almost positve the music is from composer Danny Elfman. Sorry that I couldn't be of any more help!

Call me Captain Obvious, but it's easier to spot successful key moments from a guard you have been watching all season as opposed to a guard that is making a debut in your region. A lot of things are missed when watching a show live for the first or second time. If Sac had one or two more shows down here, I'm sure the crowd would have had a different response -- more lively and enthusiastic, I'm sure, but I think this weekend was just the audience getting a feel for the show... at least in my opinion. Not to take anything away from the performances, but it's not really surprising to me that the home-state guards got more feedback than visitors -- just their neck of the woods, I suppose.

Other than the hanging, I don't see how the show was meant for shock value. What does one expect from a show that is doing a take on The Inferno? I guess you can counter-point with "choosing that show concept in general was going for shock value", but again that's a matter of opinion. Also, I believe that teens make up the majority audience at any guard show. As for whether we should handle the arts in a high school setting (mostly every circuit competition) with care, we can agree to disagree. Good form, Sue! I hope to read many more posts from you!

Drama? HAHAHA! This is a typical CGP debate, no drama here. Group hug for the concerned CGP'er! Your Welcome!

Now you're trailing off into something new. Although this is not the subject that I counter-pointed, all I'm going to say is: there's no way to "prepare" to see a show. Having a close family member that was a victim to the 9/11 tragedy, I really wasn't "prepared" to watch Alter Ego's show. Hearing those beginning voice-overs and realizing what those two squares on the floor were got me really choked up and re-opened an old wound, but I'm not going to boycott it or say it's inappropriate because it makes me extremely uncomfortable and distraught.

That is a good point and I agree that there shouldn't be a time when a student has to choose, but it happens and it's unfortunate. I was only debating on the content being immoral or inappropriate, because everyone's opinion on what is or isn't is different. 'was also debating on the performer's capability to choose what is in their best interest. Ultimately, it's the director's decision on what the show will be and as we all know, there is not one program that is pleasing to everyone.

I really don't think you're giving the performers enough credit. I firmly believe that the high school students in this activity, especially those of a world class winter guard, are much different than the average high school student. To be on a winter guard of that caliber requires (as I previously stated) skill, discipline, an overwhelming amount of responsibility and maturity (that not even most adults know) and a great understanding of what is being asked of them. I'm sure they were capable of making a well-thought-out decision as to whether or not they should participate in that program. Also, let us not forget they did have PARENTS OR GUARDIANS (not teenagers) who also made a conscious decision to let them participate. Quite bluntly, I don't think anyone should dictate what is appropriate or inappropriate. That is simply defeating the purpose of being able to express yourself artistically.

I really don't think it's that deep. Again, if any performer felt that the show was crossing a line, they would have left. Although they were high school students, they were world class performers. Being a world class performer not only requires the right skill, but a lot of maturity and a great understanding of what you are performing. I don't think any of them suffered any emotional trauma from the content of their show. Diving into death and destruction is a sensitive subject to some, but this activity is an art form and it is pivital to explore all different types of subjects and push boundaries.

I thought you didn't like plié catches. They seemed to have a lot. ;) I really like this show, but I think the rifle work could have been less choppy. It looked very "Warriors of Qin" -- I pictured something a little more fluid and graceful when I heard the music. As for WGI, I don't know if they would have walked away with the gold, but they would have been -- as they were every year-- a forced to be reckoned with.

Well, Butoh does use exaggerated facial expressions. Maybe the terror in their faces is intentional? Just a thought. However, watching the show I don't feel like the show embodies Butoh entirley. It has a "Grudge" feel more than anything. Unfortunately, I do agree that they may have trouble breaking top 5.

Indeed! I could have sworn that I also wrote "matching heights and rotations" in that last reply... guess I'm getting old! Ha! You know, it's funny how you think of it as an effect. I did too before I said it out loud and realized that it's just proper technique! It's sad how you don't see that too often, especially when flashy little tricks are added to the mix.

There is always a time and place for a good old plié! It can certainly gives a nice dramatic effect to a catch, but there are definitely a few groups that overuse it. I know I'd like to see more weapon lines staying planted, having great posture/free arms under their toss, and then nailing the heck out of it (of course) without the plié.

- Trust me, I don't post in here much, but I do read these forums often and I know how ugly it gets during the season. I have even marched with a guard that was praised highly and scrutinized just as much - it sucked! - I'm still sticking to my true-innovation-can't-come-every-year-in-the-same-class theory. - My biggest issue is just the way people say things (not just yourself). I'd like to see everyone's criticism worded a little better - even sometimes my own! I know that kids and staff members are always reading these things, and some don't care but others do, and every design team and/or performer shouldn't ever think the things that are said here are malicious or what have you - just all a matter of opinion. :) Well, great discussion!

As for JakeSpin, you say Avon was completely innovative. I'm not saying they aren't - they could very well be. I just don't see it. Feel free to go into detail to enlighten me. And again, none of my posts are meant in a catty way. I guess it's hard to interpret someones tone with text.

Wow, it's funny how people get so serious about these things. Whatever dude, your opinion is your opinion -- not trying to change it, I'm just saying you can be a little less blunt about it. You' say you've worked with many programs so you must know first hand how hard it is to make a show and a good one at that. Why bash anyone else's guard by saying the things that you have said? "boring" "tiresome" "rolling out the same show with different colors and music" That to me is just a lack of respect for hard work. whether you meant for that to happen or not.

You aren't implying, but you are. Being competitive doesn't necessarily mean that you don't love what you are doing as a performer or as a staff member. You can't just "like" the activity and get as far as Logan, Avon, Arcadia and Flanagan have come - they must have love and a great passion for the activity. I think sometimes being "older" doesn't mean your view about this whole thing is right. And again about innovation, I trust that you being older have seen Miamisburg's tribute to Marilyn Monroe - they spun in complete silence. Just saying, it's been done before. Again, I thought Avon did exceptionally well last year, but them spinning to their soundtrack wasn't too groundbreaking. They did raise the bar in movement for Scholastic World, but a few other guards raised the bar in other things as well. Flanagan was out there throwing clean, unison sixes and catching behind their back [raising the bar in equipment skill]. Logan raised the bar in performance - their fast section gave me chills because the intensity that I hadn't seen in that particular class was there. It's impossible to say that one group is more outstanding than the other because they all bring something unique to the table. Of course, I can agree to disagree. I'm just not too fond of calling certain things boring or tiresome. I also saw your posts about NEI's movment and I'd really like to know if you teach any winter guard program. I'd like to see if you're doing a better job of what you call "stepping it up". If you don't you should really go out there and give it try. I'm waiting to see something new from someone and I'm looking forward to seeing you accomplish it. No sarcasm whatsoever. Anyways, putting innovation and competiveness aside, from a designers stand-point "Our goal should be to maintain consistency and help them get better" - Will ain't that the truth?! As long as the kids are enjoying themselves and they are becoming consistent and better, everything else is secondary.

I can go into major details about the first comment, but I'm going to try to keep this short and sweet. Whether anyone is willing to admit it or not, I can confidently say that placing well is usually one of many objectives that a color guard has - especially that of a WGI Scholastic World Finalist. Now, placement is usually a reflection of success in equipment skill, performance skill and/or show design (not including "politics"), right? Anywhooo, placement is nothing compared to an audience's feedback. I'm sure another main objective of a Scholastic World Finalist is to give their audience what they want -- and what their audiences want is one heck of a show. Call Logan, Flanagan or whomever else you want "booooooooooring", but I don't think boring shows get full standing ovations at WGI. I love Avon as much as the next person does, but I don't really see how they have expanded our activity. Quite frankly, I haven't seen ANY guard's this year that have done something really innovative, but that's just my opinion. Now, I'm not going to call anyone boring because I know breaking major barriers and innovation is hard to accomplish, and it only comes once every few years.... Not just in color guard but in everything! Medicine, sports, television, music, art, etc., etc.! If you want change in something, then get your butt out there and make it happen... If not, at least play nice.

I personally don't think guards like Flanagan or Logan have "fallen into a rut" with their shows. I think of it more as their personal signatures that set them apart from everyone else... and although, their "formula" is similar every year, each show has kept me at the edge of my seat! I love their styllistic approach to their show designs and apparently it's working in favor for the both of them - James Logan with their decade reign in SW and Flanagan moving up in place every year since their debut at WGI. :)