roosevelt

I think The Troopers will be the biggest surprise this next year. The staff basicly brought a group back from the dead and had a full corps that looked and sounded like they had been around for a few years. The corps was very young and if they have good retention they should be in great shape. They had something like a dozen vets in the whole corps last year. Imagine how much better they could be with 60 vets or more. Also, I have heard that they are making some exciting additions to their design staff that should help things out a bit. With another year under the belt for the members and staff, I would look for them to surprise some folks this next season. Honorable Mention: The Madison Scouts. They should move back to where they belong as long as they fix some design things before the start of the season this time.... it would hardly be a surprise if they moved back up in to the top 10 or 12 though.

Don't you get it.....people like to complain while sitting on their wallets and not offering to help....it is the american way <**>

It's not....but people will be peeved if they dont

and now back to the topic

I remember reading that Madison had one of the oldest corps in all of Div. I this past year

you beat me to it

I am pretty sure they did not have that many rookies and if they did many of them were from Oregon Crusaders who had nearly the same staff as Cascades the year before.

It was in the original post to state your choice or choices and then state why....it makes for a more lively discussion than just throwing a name out there randomly

no reasons why?

no reasons why?

Who is going to make the biggest move upwards in scoring and placement in 2008? Please state your choice (or choices) and then say why.

Dave Glyde....has since the early 90's

That does not mean it was a good show though... They deserved to win simply becuase they performed way better than everyone else. But I don't care how clean they are next year, they won't win with another piece of junk show like that again.

It most certianly did happen. DCI stepped in for a reason, becuase things were that bad. It was far more than personalities clashing. Personalities clash with every drum corps, sometimes worse than others, but what happened there was more than that. I can assure you that DCI would not have stepped in if it were simply a matter of personalities clashing. The corps was mismanaged to the point where kids were in jeopardy and I dont want to hear that it has happened to many other drum corps in the past. That still does not make it right. These are children that are being intrusted to people to take care of them and make sure that they are safe and have a worthwhile experience. I can't tell you how many people that marched there that have said they would never march again if it meant they had to go back there....that should say something I hope they get things back on track, but to do that they are going to have to make a lot of changes

1. It would be nice if every drum corps was required to share their cut lists. This would help lower corps fill up with quality members. The last 10 or 12 people cut from BD or Cavies are usually pretty good, and they often spend the summer sitting at home waiting for next year. 2. I have mentioned this in a previous thread, but I think random show order would be helpful as well. I feel like judges (in DCI at least) tend start low with the first corps and then work their way up. Usually it works out fine, but in a random order setting the judges have to work for it a little more. It would also give the audience a chance to see some corps they may not generally see. Drum corps audiences are notoriously late arrivers, and I think this would get them in their seats a bit earlier and therefore they would get to see more corps that they may end up taking a liking to. 3. Most importantly, they need to get the best judges that they can. People that are at the top of the activity (that are not teaching in DCI already of course). Currently there are some great judges out there, but they are in the minority. Most of those guys out there I would not want in front of a junior high band, much less a world class drum corps. I cannot tell you how many times I have looked at the sheets and seen a someone on there judging that has one of the worst bands you have ever heard, but now they are going to sit in cirtique and tell you how to do your job when they obvioulsy cannot do their own. We need great judges and the only way to do that is to go out there and find the best people in the activity and pay them a ton of money to judge. Then you will have people that will not be afraid to make a call and do what is right....even if it not what is expected.

could actually happen though....Cavies were not as good as they have been in years past I think it would be really stupid of them to fire their brass staff, but way stranger things have happened in the past and are about to happen in the near future....

Yes! They were incredible. I did not say that they had the best brass staff. I said they may have the best brass staff. With the quality of the program the keep putting out year after year I would say that they should be in the relm of consideration. As for who actually has the best brass staff? Who knows. It could be PR, BD, cavies, Crown, or maybe even someone like Crossmen or an even lower scoring corps. There are many factors that go into it like the talent level given v/s the final product or how well the group marches, or how the book is scored, or how the show well the show is designed. So, there is no way to definitively know who has the best brass staff. I do know that brass titles are not nessecarily an indicator. Fair enough. But I think Crown sounded way better than all of those groups except maybe Bluecoats. Placement is not always an indicator if who is better. Most times it is.....but not every time. Crown's sound was very mature and balanced. They also played really freakin clean. I am guessing that some of the groups that you mentioned may have been cleaner than them, but I dont think very many groups, if any, play with a better sonority. As far as I am concerned, they have the best brass sound in DCI and that is way harder to achieve than playing clean.

Can't Crown just be Crown

This topic is obviously here to poke fun at the thread about bluecoats getting 7th in marching and people saying they should replace their visual staff. It is not working though... The differemce is everyone knows that crown's brass staff may be the best brass staff in DCI and possibly the best thing crown has going for them. Everyone also knows that bluecoats visual package is behind the rest of the corps.... nice try though

you dont...at least I dont

No way. It turns out to be a signifigant amount of time for some corps. I I haved been with corps in the top and near the bottom of the competitive spectrum and I can assure you that the lower tier corps have far shorter days than everyone else, especially at big shows and regionals. Besides, 45 minutes here and there really adds up. If I went up to the staff for the cadets and the blue devils and told them that they were going to get 30-45 minutes less time on every show day next season they would blow a gasket.

I know that this has been stated, but I blieve that we can have both. Helping the lower corps move up, or at least putting them in a situation where it is easier for them to move up will IMO help the whole activity become better, and therefore improve the level of excellence. All corps strive for excellence, but I believe under the current structure some of them have a tougher time achieving it than others. If the lower corps get better (which they have been) and become more competitive (which to a limited extent they have been) than it will push everyone to be better in my opinion.

You are absolutely right. No it should not be done through restriction. But under the current system there is plenty of restriction on the lower corps as is. When they go on in a show is one of the most obvious. Here are a few things about that alone that cause a lack of parity. - The top tier corps tend to go on later while the lower corps go on early. This means 3 things: 1. The corps that go on early get less rehearsal time than the corps that go on late. So, the drum corps that are ahead get more time to pull farther ahead than the corps that could use more rehearsal time. This turns out to a few hours EVERY day they have a show where the mebers could be getting more rehearsal, more sleep or more time to relax. By the end of the season it amounts to about a week more of time the top tier corps get than the lower corps. 2. We all know that judges tend to rank in order of appearance. This is not to say that they will not mix things up a bit from the performance order in relation to placing, but they tend to low ball corps that go on early just for the simple reason that they need to leave room for the corps that go on after them. So, corps that get less rehearsal time, often times less sleep, and are trying to move up the competitive ranks are also having to deal with judges being safe with their numbers in order to cover their hyde. 3. Drum corps look better at night under the lights. I know this sounds dumb but they do. There is more excitement and energy (which translates to more GE) when the show takes place under the lights. Under the lights uniforms look better, the color of the flags are more vibrant, and everything seems to sparkle a but more. When the sun is out it transaltes to less energy and it seems more like a rehearsal. It also causes issues at times with the sun being in the performers eyes making it difficult for them to see (like at DCI finals this year for example). If the sun happens to be behind them, than it may be in the eyes of the audience and judges....that is sure to effect things - On a side note related to this. I know some people on the Troopers staff that told me that they did 32 shows before quarters this past year (which I believe was the most in DCI). He said they went on first 21 times out of those 32. He also said that they went on after the sun went down only once the whole season. It should be noted that that one show that they went on at night (where they went on last at that show) their score jumped nearly five points from the previous show (where they went on early in the event). At the very next show they went on first again and it dropped nearly five points. When they approached the judges at cirtique that night more than one of the jusges said "that is the problem with going on first."....so, performance order makes a big difference and the corps that go on early are generally the ones that get shafted. A couple of other things to look at: 1. Top tier corps tend to stay at the show site more than lower tier corps. This transates to no travel time for them. You add that with the fact that the corps staying at the show site usually goes on last or very close to it that translates into far more time for rehearsal, or rest for the members. 2. Top tier corps get more cirtiques than everyone else. That should not be the case but it most definately is. Blue Stars this past year had more shows this year than BD, SCV, PR, Cavies, & Cadets but they had less than half of the number of cirtiques than any of those corps. Less cirtiques, means less access to the judges to get feedback or give your input to them. Now, is there a simple solution to some of these problems liste above. Yes. - They can make the number of cirtiques a specific nuumber for everyone during the season, or a percentage of the shows you have done. - I am sure they could make a rule about corps that have to drive long distances from their housing site to get to the show get to go on later in the event (some band circuits do this). Or you could stipulate that the corps that is staying at the housing site must go on first unless it is their "home" show. Niether of these ideas will ever pass becuase it would cause a sea of red tape the DCI is probably unwilling and dare say unable to handle. - Last but not least DCI could insitute a total random order from show to show. What they have know is called a random order but it is far from it. I am talking about one night you see colts go on last and BD go on first and then the next night BD goes on last while the Cadets go first.....or whatever scenario you desire. This would force the judges to make calls, and it would give the corps more of an even playing field in terms of rehearsal, sleep, free time and whatever else. If this rule were to be proposed (which I have been told it will be this next year) it will fail miserably. Hopkins, Gibbs, Fiedler and the rest of the elite corps that generally go on late at night will see to it that is does not.

There are many rules that we can propose in order to level the playing field or create parity, but the chances of them passing are very slim becuase the corps with all of the influence and power don't want the playing field to be leveled. This next year I have heard of a few rule proposals that are being drafted up that would be great for creating parity.....but they will never pass becuase it will to some extent negetively effect the corps at the top while helping corps at the bottom and it turns out that the corps at the top hold all of the power and influence.

Silvertrombone I agree with most of your post except your comment about the 4/6/7 corps winning the captions untill finals week. That is the problem. The judges made calls at those earlier shows becuase it was easier (i.e shows were smaller and therefore made comparisons easier and the numbers managament easier). But in the end none of these corps won a caption during finals week. Crown's guard probably should have won...they didn't Bluecoats brass probably should have won...they didn't Pnathom's Percussion section definately should have won....they didn't I was very excited coming in to finals week just for this reason. A bunch of corps that are not in the title hunt that could win caption awards. ...but in the end the same thing happened that always does: the caption awards are reserved for the top three