vaguardguy

This thread: http://www.drumcorpsplanet.org/forums//ind...n%20awards&st=0 has pretty thorough lists on all the caption winners, including a lengthy discussions on the colorguard caption, and'll hopefully answer some of your questions? Just trying to help!

Now that this thread is officially way off topic, why not reminisce about a pretty interesting summer (sor mods). I don't think anybody had a good show the night of Prelims. We went on within 30min. of the show restarting after the rain delay, and remember how the field looked like this: (yes, ugliest corps uniforms in DCI...moving on...) The podium had to be pushed back to avoid floating away, the pit was a swamp, and the field squished and squirted up mud on every step. Those white pants needed cleaning bad after that show! We, along with probably every corps who advanced to Thursday, had a much better show. We too were surprised to find our score also dropped. In fact, the only corps in the 12th-15th range whose score improved from Tuesday was CNYC. The recaps tell a pretty good story. Every corps had its own very remarkable strengths and weaknesses; successes and downfalls. The thing you have to understand East Coast II/III corps and how their scores improve over the season is that most of them are primarily weekend corps. A few have weekday camps and some others have a very short move-in, but none tour as extensively as many of their midwest counterparts. Most of us never peak. Every rehearsal is so very important because our net rehearsal time is so much shorter than yours. What we accomplish in two days in August is probably so much more than your corps can accomplish because while you're fine-tuning the details of your show, we just barely started cleaning. We had so much more room for improvement. I can't speak on behalf of the Raiders and CNYC, but I know (and Revo members will attest) we were pulling 16hr rehearsals as though it were move-in. Again, it's not a case of one corps really being better than the other. It's more the nature of how two very different styles of corps design their shows and manage their time. Anyways, you got to go to Finals the next two summers. I think you can smile and let us have our one shining moment in the sun :) ; you got yours the next summer. We got to be the only DivIII corps in the post-'02 Finals format ('01 was the last summer of the 5 DivII/7 DivIII corps Finals) to earn a spot at the expense of of a DivII corps, and did it with one of the smallest corps to make finals at 47 members. II/III scores can be very erratic (I almost typed erotic, which they certainly are not), and it takes judges a while to get good reads on the shows. That's one of the best parts of II/III: on "any given night", there'll probably be an upset. If you want to talk about real injustices, I'll gladly bring up the situation with our '04 colorguard . We all know the rules, and you take your wins with your losses; no one wants to hear us old vets whine and moan anyways :sshh: . By the way, Memphis Sound is one of the few corps I can honestly say improves every single year. Not many corps can say that . Edit: Boo on hot-linking images that need re-sizing

I'm 99% sure the II/III committee (I'm not sure if it was the entire caucus, or just the advisory committee) decided on Saturday morning finals in the offseason leading up to summer 2003. The DCI BoD then had to approve the II/III committee's suggestion (it's the way they roll over there) before it was implemented. From what I heard, that idea was kicked around for a few years before actually being attempted. Personally, I think the real solution is to have II/III Finals Friday evening. Yes, it would be at the expense of DivI Semifinals (heaven forbid they have to go on in the day just once), but it would be the best way to ensure exposure to that part of the activity. It won't happen in my lifetime (has something to do with revenue brought in at semifinals that DCI feels won't be recouped if it became a day show), but one can dream. Wednesday evening finals were very hit-or-miss and depended on how supportive the locals were of the activity. In towns like Madison, the attendance was surprisingly good. In towns like Buffalo, not so much. Most of the out-of-town fans haven't arrived by Wednesday evening, so just being a night show doesn't guarantee a big draw if the local population isn't supportive. Having performed at 8AM on a Saturday morning finals, let me assure you that was the lamest experience in my marching career. The corps had to wake up at 5AM (some of us had to be up even earlier) so we could perform for all 15 people in the stands that morning (actually, I counted before we stepped off and there were less than 100 spectators). I've had to perform some early shows in my time (anyone remember the randomly slotted II/III focus show prelims in '02 - okay, probably not in this forum), and I've had to perform to some empty bleachers, but this was probably the worst. Eventually, the crowd swelled to a few hundred, but it vastly paled to what I've seen at College Park or Madison II/III Finals. They eventually got smart and moved the start-time up to 10AM. Either way, the average drum corps fan is still getting over his or her hangover at 10AM. I think a reasonable compromise would be to allow II/III to play in the big stadium on Saturday starting at noon, let that show run for 4hrs, and you still have a 2hr "dinner break" before DivI Finals so that you can treat these two events as one, singular event hoping to draw a large crowd for an all-day event. I like DCA...a lot! I go to at least two shows a year now, one being finals. On the other hand, I don't care if they have a show in conjunction with DCI. Personally, I'd rather they not. I know DCA isn't old folks "reliving their youth", so why even give in to that image even a little bit by tying in a show to DCI Finals (and trust me, you do when you do that)? DCA should keep doing it's thing, continue growing, start hosting more shows on its geographic fringes, and foster its unique identity. There's no need to piggy-back off DCI when they have enough issues scheduling DivII/III. Edit: spelling error

Nah, I accept two answers as correct for, "Armpit of America." One is still Valdosta, GA. The other, and if you've passed through there where I-70 meets I-76, is Breezewood, PA. I guess it's great if you're a trucker looking foir late-night food, but that's about it. I don't like to think of NJ as the armpit of America. I like to think of it more as America's a-hole (in more ways than one). Cheers to NJ !

Revolution's story, if anything, has thoroughly convinced me that Texas is not some kind of magical hot-bed of eager, amazing talent, but rather a state populated by many large marching bands with members on average no more or less talented or developed than those in NJ or CA. The advantage to recruiting in Texas is that with so many marching band students, many interested in marching DCI, a corps is nearly certain to draw a large pool of auditionees of which a greater few will be of their desired calibre. This still does not guarantee a corps' success. Drum corps achieve based far more on the abilities of their instructional staffs: developing programs that will succeed competitively, designing shows the membership can achieve, and rigorously and effectively training the marchers in their basic, uniform technique so they can rise to achieve their show. The 30-135 warm bodies on the field just do all the grunt work. Member talent helps, but is absolutely meaningless without these other qualities. There are so many lessons a corps can take from Revoltion's meteoric rise and subsequent (albeit temporary) collapse between '01-'03. I'd like to preface that I'm not an insider to Revolution's affairs, but just an avid fan of their previous incarnation. We housed with them Finals week in both '02 and '03, and over the two years became fairly close (in fact, they were the only corps to whom we've ever exchanged performances during my three years of corps). Call it a shared kind of pretension (neither of us were known as the type of fun corps to talk to after a show) and a loosely similar history, but we related well. I talked occasionally with a tiny handfull of Revo members up until shortly after their folding. 2001 was their first year going to DCI Finals. This was before I started closely following them and I don't know all the details, but they finished 9th of 26 at DivIII Prelims. This was a pretty good finish, but nothing especially remarkable by DivIII standards. Corps have been known to win DivIII on their first national appearance (e.g. Oregon Crusaders 2004), but despite all this "Texas talent", it seemed they still had to work out kinks to become a top-tier drum corps. 2002 would be that year. They had more than just talent, but a great program that showcased this talent and a staff that helped them reach a potential I've seen no where outside the top 5 in DivI. If you expand this <60-member corps to 135 identical members, you have yourself a DCI DivI finalist. They're pretty much indisputably the best DivIII corps since 2000, and their Finals score reiterates this. You can tell a lot by the way a corps marches, and every single facet of their technique was so finely tuned I would dare anyone to find discrepancies in any part of their step. Wow, I would've loved to have marched that show (especially since I wasn't so hot on mine that summer). 2003 was a huge disappointment for many of their members to whom we talked. Their auditions were a huge success with hundreds trying out for a limited number of spots. The corps was playing their finances conservatively, and I recall them announcing they were only going to have between 80-90 members that summer. This would've put them in-line with most DivII corps, nothing special. More importantly, this also should've allowed them "the pick of the litter" when it came to membership. I don't know what happened, but the corps took a longer tour that summer and stagnated along the way. In fact, their larger DivII corps that summer failed to even outscore their successes with a smaller corps the previous year. They went into Finals week barely rehearsing 4hrs a day, spending their remaining hours watching us rehearse 16hr days (we were on the bubble for Finals that year - a difficult goal for any DivIII corps nowadays). I don't think I've ever seen a less motivated corps (there were also a lot of disappointing internal issues going on that probably aren't suitable for public forum). On the other hand, they spent so much time cheering us on, providing us so much motivation that I'm certain without their well-wishes we would've not had the success we did that summer. I gained so much respect for their membership that summer, and can never thank them enough. Back on topic, a lot of their vets had so many complaints about that summer. Most were about these "band kids" coming in thinking they were hot ####. The vets who had worked so hard the previous summer(s) complained immensely about these kids and how they only came because they thought it would guarantee them a ring. They had so much assurance that because this was finally the "big, new corps from Texas", they could claim a "measly" DivII title with little or no effort. I guess they learned there's a big difference between BOA band, where size and GE are king, and DCI where some semblance of strong, uniform performance ability has to exist. It was apparently a rough summer, and I know a number of Revo vets went off to corps like BK and Cavies the following November. I think this, over time, developed among a lot of the membership a greater loyalty to their instructional staff than necessarily to the corps itself. 2004 was the year Revo had to take off and chose to "clean house". Apparently the corps decided to release (I think) their percussion caption head in April or May of that spring. In response to this, most of the drumline quit the corps. With some members leaving, other members chose to follow suit and things became pretty messy (was following their message boards at the time). I think it was decided that it would be too difficult to recruit and train an entirely new drumline, so instead they took the summer off. In the meantime, they pretty much cleaned house of most people associated with the pre-'04 years. I don't know if they have anyone on staff, or even any members, of the pre-'04 Revo in its '05 incarnation (who placed 4th of 20 in DivIII). Would love to know. Sorry this ran long, but I think there are a few lessons that can be taken here. First, a lot of Texas band kids do think themselves above DivII/III. I think they've been told for so long that they're so good, when instead we should've been telling them their bands are so good. There's a world of difference, and the two are only marginally related. Second, the key to a junior corps' success in Texas will have to come from a creative, fiscally sound administration who vests much of their efforts in securing the best possible instructors with close ties to the state's high schools. I think it'll take work to convince many of these kids from Texas to stay at home and march a II/III corps rather than keep trying to audition for the top 5 corps that most of them never make.

I've joked with friends before that if only Southwind had not botched the rotating box that was their closing form, they would've made the Saturday night show. Interesting fact: SW finished 12th or higher in every single subcaption at semifinals, but landed in 13th when all the points were tabulated. It seems improbable that this could happen, but it turns out that both Bluecoats and Crown rode into finals off the performance of especially stellar, singular captions. Personally, I think SW deserved the 11th spot that night over a weak Bluecoats corps and a poorly-constructed (by Crown standards) "Zorro" show from the Carolinas. Oh well, it's hard to knock off perennial finalists even in their "off" years. Opinions are like...well, you know how the saying goes. Feel free to disagree, this activity is pretty subjective. As for folding because a corps fails to make finals? That seems kind of lame? Forcing? Interesting choice of words? The pay scale at the time was identical for 12th and 13th place corps (I think the cutoff then was between 7 and 8 and then again at 15 and 16 - could be mistaken), so you can't chalk it up to finances? Just curious why ? Edit: wordsmithing

'canos 2000! Yeah, I remember those uniforms and what looked like chainmail baldrics. They looked great and I've been hoping they might return to those for a while now. Anyone here remember their '03 uniforms with the shakos? Anything would be an improvement over those uniforms (not like my corps would have much room to talk). When I think of Americanos, I think of gauchos; not shakos. Anyways, I would love to see Americanos get back to the level of their 2000 corps. They haven't quite been there since, but I'm sure with good planning and dedication it'll only be a matter of time. Baby-steps; first they need to get a corps on the field. Best wishes and good luck recruiting! Edit: removed hyperlinked image

Definitely among my top three favourite visual performances ever (maybe #1), but musically I find it kind of stale. I know some people love Stonehenge, it just doesn't do much for me. Then again, what can I say? I'm a visual kind of guy, so their visual performance more than makes up for what I feel is dry music. The part of the video where they show their company front from a camera angle along the side: wow! Just watching those stripes on their pants move together like that is something else. Oh, and their colorguard. I'm a sucker for the 42" rifles and sabres. You can see them so clearly on the video, and it makes their impressive book that much more readable. I also liked their flag work too. It wasn't as impressive as what they had in "Liquid" this past summer, but by '98 standards it was great.

I actually talked to Stephanie once or twice in the DCP chatroom a good while back and suggested that she start an online store on the 27 website selling 27th Lancer replica memorabilia. You know how SCV recently started selling replicas of the old snareline shirt from the 80's? I think 27 should sell similar kinds of items to fund their alumni association (or some other generous cause). I want a 27th Lancers shirt so bad (I think old-timers forget that people in modern colorguard, especially out East, are aware of and have respect for the 27 colorguard - it's that mid-80's through early-90's "bridesmaid era" of colorguard whom we occasionally poke light fun), but every time I've bid for one that's come up on EBay from time to time, I get outbid right out of my price range :( . I wish someone would get on that.

There was a major II/III focus show in Kitchener back in 2002: the Canadian Open. 23 corps were in attendance, and it was held in a prelims/finals format. Most of the corps were DivIII, including some that were among the best in the division; but for some reason very few DivII corps were in attendance, and the few that did participate were the competitively weaker ones. Dutch Boy hosted the show, and they did a pretty good job filling the bleachers by the time the evening finals show began. I'd guess the stands to be half-full, which, sadly, is pretty good for a DivII/III show. Yes, there was a beer garden at that show! It was great, because I've never before seen beer sold at a DCI show. Being 19 at the time, I was legal to go drink. Along with some of the other older members, we considered paying the tent a visit, but later decided against it (a number of reasons, not the least being that the corps was very young that year - that would change the following season - and it would've been in pretty poor taste of us). I believe they were selling Labatts, which is a big step up from the, "Drum corps time is Miller time" you get at DCA. I also remember thinking it odd that the HS (though it might've been a community center...or is they say there, community "centre") where the show was being hosted had a hockey rink. I can't think of any HS in the States that has a hockey rink. That must be expensive to maintain. During the break between prelims and finals (we did not have a housing site very nearby, so we only put in an hour or two worth of parking lot practice between shows), a number of us trekked over to the rink. Somewhere around here I have a hockey puck from that rink that was lying around in one of the hallways. Honestly, I don't think I've ever in my life seen such a concentration of hockey pucks in one place. It was almost stereotypically funny, those Canadians and their hockey. By the way, the Canadian tour that summer is one of my favorite drum corps memories. Every single person (and I mean every person) was amazingly friendly. If it weren't so cold all the time, I'd be there in a heartbeat.

Sadly, the key expression is remaining in DivI :( ! I know, two thumbs down to that whole mess <**> <**> .

2000 was the first year DivI corps were allowed to use any-key horns with BD and the Cadets breaking the ice. DivII/III issued a moratorium on any-key horns until 2002 when a small handful of corps began switching over. There is currently only one corps remaining in DivI playing G horns (there would be two, but the rumour mill has it there's a good chance Blue Stars will be switching to Bb/F horns this season), that being Pioneer. In DivII/III, a little over 50% of the corps are on G horns, but that's also a rapidly diminishing number.

I'm still waiting for a corps to come out entirely in pope hats (mitres)! I think it'll look a little something like: Look, they even have a colorguard marching out in front of them. If you're impatient waiting for some other corps to come out like that, you could always start your own with these simple pope-hat-making instructions.

Where's DCP-user "argonaut" when you need him most! He'll readily tell you it's not headgear that determines the success of a corps, but the size of their plumage. This explains it all. The power of plumes compel you! My contribution to DCP tonight will be a list I compiled a while back trying to (jokingly) convince a friend a corps' headgear is central to a corps' placement. Here's a list of corps' headgear and their placements: *DCI: -Shakos: (39) Cadets (1st place DivI) Blue Devils (4th place DivI) Carolina Crown (7th place DivI) Boston Crusaders (9th place DivI) Blue Knights (10th place DivI) Glassmen (11th place DivI) Spirit (12th place DivI) Colts (13th place DivI) Capital Regiment (15th place DivI) Southwind (16th place DivI) Mandarins (17th pace DivI) Seattle Cascades (17th place DivI) Pacific Crest (19th place DivI) Esperanza (20th place DivI) Magic of Orlando (21st place DivI) Kiwanis Kavaliers (24th place DivI) East Coast Jazz (1st place DivII) Teal Sound (4th place DivII) Fever (5th place DivII) Jersey Surf (7th place DivII) Oregon Crusaders (8th place DivII) Memphis Sound (9th place DivII) Raiders (1st place DivIII) Yamato (3rd place DivIII) Revolution (4th place DivIII) Capital Sound (5th place DivIII) Allegiance Elite (6th place DivIII) Pride of the Lions (7th place DivIII) Dutch Boy (8th place DivIII) Citations (10th place DivIII) Les Stentors (11th place DivIII) Spirit of New Jersey (14th place DivIII) St. John's (15th place DivIII) 7th Regiment (17th place DivIII) HYPE (18th place DivIII) Targets (19th place DivIII) Academy (Regional DivII) Blue Devils B (Regional DivII) Spokane Thunder (Regional DivIII) -Aussies/Aussie-like: (10) Cavaliers (2nd place DivI) Madison Scouts (6th place DivI) Santa Clara Vanguard (8th place DivI) Crossmen (13th place DivI) Troopers (22nd place DivI) Cadets of New York City (12th place DivIII) Strangnas (13th place DivIII/Int'l) Blue Saints (20th place DivIII) Santa Clara Vanguard Cadets (Regional DivII) Colt Cadets (Regional DivII) -Helmets: (9) Phantom Regiment (3rd place DivI) Bluecoats (5th place DivI) Spartans (2nd place DivII) Blue Stars (3rd place DivII) Taipei Yuehfu (2nd place DivIII) Lake Erie Regiment (9th place DivIII) Racine Scouts (16th place DivIII) Mystikal (Regional DivIII) Jester (Regional DivIII) -Officer Caps: (1) Pioneer (23rd place DivI) -Baseball Caps: (1) Impulse (6th place DivII) *DCA: -Shakos: (7) Syracuse Brigadiers (4th place Open Class) Minnesota Brass, Inc. (6th place Open Class) Carolina Gold (8th place Open Class) Rochester Crusaders (12th place Open Class) New York Skyliners (13th place Open Class) Alliance (3rd place Class A) Heat Wave (5th place Class A) -Aussies/Aussie-like: (14) Reading Buccaneers (1st place Open Class) Bushwackers (3rd place Open Class) Hawthorne Caballeros (7th place Open Class) CorpsVets (9th place Open Class) Kingston Grenadiers (11th place Open Class) Sunrisers (15th place Open Class) Frontier (16th place Open Class) Chops, Inc. (1st place Class A) Music City Legend (4th place Class A) White Sabers (6th place Class A) Lakeshoremen (7th place Class A) Shenandoah Sound (9th place Class A) Mon Valley Express (10th place Class A) Dream (Regional Class A) -Officer Caps: (1) Connecticut Hurricanes (10th place Open Class) -Tams: (1) Racine Kilties (14th place Open Class) -Driver Caps: (1) Gulf Coast Sound (8th place Class A) -No Cover: (4) Empire Statesmen (2nd place Open Class) Renegades (5th place Open Class) Govenaires (2nd place Class A) River City Regiment (Regional Class A) There you have it! Numbers don't lie, and these clearly show that a good placement in DCI is nearly guaranteed by wearing helmets; likewise, a strong DCA-placement is insured by simply wearing no headgear at all. The end, no room for argument :P . Oh, and for people who complain about the lack of aussies in DCI, consider aussie-wearing a privilege best reserved for when/if you go on to march DCA.

What's different about what the Cadets wear? I never noticed. Hoping to answer a question: The Cadets' shakos this past summer were definitely...ummm...different than most shakos. Discounting '05, I don't really see the difference either. From a distance, the Cadet's shakos do look a little bit different than everyone else's; I think because of the maroon stripe. On closer inspection, the Cadets' shakos (sor, have to use the much prettier pre-'03 uniform here) have very similar dimensions to, using just one example, the Blue Devils' shakos. At one time, I think the Cadets had shorter, boxier looking shakos, but I think that went away by the early 90's. As for me, I can't get enough of BACs' patent leather shakos. That hard, glossy surface throughout the entire shako, rather than just along the brim, is a great look; very sharp.

Yay and congrats on the return! I remember talking to some of your guard kats before finals retreat (it was a prelims/finals show with Dimensions just squeaking into the night show) in Valdosta, GA (armpit of America) the summer of '03. They struck me as a very nice group of people, and it was saddening to hear about them folding the following year. Glad to hear they're back in the fray.

No, what is scary are those haircuts! Yikes!

You call that a shako?! THIS is a shako! May the biggest shako win. P.S. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it poor form to steal another site's bandwidth in such quantities like that without at least directing people to the source of your image first? Then again, you may be BD's webmaster, in which case no foul.

Thanks! Glad to hear they're still doing their thing!

I thought the same thing when I read the announcement. It won't be the first time a DivI corps borrowed here and there from a II/III production, even if it is nothing more than a show title. Then again, the "something old, something new, something borrowed, something blue" expression is rooted so deep in our culture that I imagine their show concept was still completely independent.

Hehe, we know they may still have the hot-shorts because they brought back one of the old guard uniforms for their '02 "Three Decades" production (that was a mighty-good show). You never know, but I suspect not.

Thanks! Just wondering...

Neat! Admitedly, hearing the "American in Paris" role was given to an SCV vet is nothing short of rumor. I haven't heard anyone ever come out and say he wasn't an SCV vet, but obviously the burden of proof doesn't rest there. In the meantime, I guess it would be pretty unfair to assume. As for Carmen, this was the post that pretty much put all rumors to rest (thanks to Toby). She was the sister of a Capital Sound member who was at the right place at the right time.

Huh? I don't get it? I get jokes (which I think this is supposed to be), and I know jokes lose a little bit of their humor when explained; but still, I don't understand the subtext of this one. I believe the guy in Phantom's guard last year was an Adam Sage holdover, and the girl in Madison Scout's guard had ties with Capital Sound (I recall hearing she was the sibling of a former or current CapSound member). Was there a perception that Scout's and Phantom's use of other-gender characters somehow related? I'm not sure. Just wondering. Thanks!

I might be barking up the wrong tree, but are any of you familiar with the Legend of Angels drum corps? Do they compete anymore? Are they any good? Their site is mostly in Japanese, so I can't make much out of it. The reason I ask is we had a bass drummer in LVK '04 travelling all the way from Japan who marched Legend of Angels. I would appreciate any information anyone here has of them. It would satisfy a lot of long-standing curiosities. Thank you!