zentropa

I've been to 4 theater shows in the past few years, 2 sold out shows in Tulsa OK, full of teens. No big surprise there, big schools with good arts education programs. 1 show in New Mexico, maybe 25 people all under 30 (except me) and one show (last night) in Ogden Utah which was about the same as the NM show. It just depends on where you are I guess. After the first corps, my brother had a visit with the theater manager and asked him to turn the sound up, he did, WAY UP! We were very lucky last night, It rocked!

He's right, horn lines didn't sound like those recordings. Some of the horns were really good too. The King I had in Sky Ryders was better than my band trumpet. In fact, after marching my first year, I didn't really want to play a trumpet any more, I couldn't stand it, too wimpy and easy to distort at volume. The Freelancer horns were not as good and the older DEG's that I played were worse. So, yeah, some hornlines sounded good and bad for different reasons, but they never sounded like the records you hear. Biggest difference? Better, more demanding shows. Better training. Costs a lot more Fewer corps Wimpier sounding horn lines...better intonation though. The mic'd pit has added a lot of musicality that wasn't there before.

I can't speak for "most people" but I can say that I follow the 10th-down ranked corps a lot more through the season. It's a more dramatic for me. As far as vets in the crowd go, I'm guessing a lot never finished in the top 12 and know how hard it is..even harder for members of smaller corps. What I'm saying is that when you are performing, and everyone is just sitting on their hands, a lot of us vets know what you are going through out there. The reason you are not getting standing O's has nothing to do with you or the corps really, it's just the general effect of the show. Some corps just have a bigger following and more core vets too. I think I can relate a little, during the 90's my rock band toured with KISS and it was not as exciting as it sounds. Naturally we went on before they did. At first, the audience was great but only because the show was finally starting. By the middle of our set, the blinking of 20k eyes were louder than any applause and we were lucky to end our set before the booing started...usually, it was pretty sucky. The crowd didn't care who we were of how hard we'd worked to get there. They just wanted Detroit Rock City and barfing blood. Entertainment is a tough business, from the bottom to the top. When Pioneer or any other corps perform, they are IN THE BUSINESS so don't take it personally...I feel your pain brutha.

Book it just like a rock concert and hire independent (from DCI) judges? I'd go, especially if I liked the ticket price. Is there anything currently forbidding DCI corps from participating in such an event?

Don't know. I'm thinking that someone will try slam poetry.

See, this guys right on the ball, it's not going to happen, there simply are not enough dorks out there to push it through. We might see some woodwinds in the pit but never a marching sax or flute line, It's a stupid idea and I'm going to sleep now.

Interesting, thanks, really. I don't see how the GE scores could suffer by refusing to do something that a lot of fans hate. I think drum corps today is probably where the parent type fans want to it be but I get the feeling, a lot of drum corps vets dislike the recent changes, I can relate. I remember my first drum corps show and seeing for the first time a 2 valve horn close up, they were so weird and I had no idea how they worked but wanted one so I went to a winter camp about a year later. When finally got my G bugle, it was like Excalibur, I loved it. I remember bringing it to school and showing it around, everyone in my band wanted to look at it. A couple years later I was told that my own corps was pushing for the 3 valve G horns. Not because they really wanted them but because our horns were already pretty beat up and they didn't want to order a new line of soon to be obsolete bugles. I was 18 and already ###### off about the direction of drum corps. If we had moved to the new 3 valve horns, I would not have left the corps though, at least they were still G horns and thereby weird enough to keep me interested. Later, as more corps moved to Bb I stopped going to shows and I was really ###### when they started calling them trumpets. "Trumpets" yuck, it's still like nails on a chalkboard to me. I think it was about 10 years before I attended another DCI event. Anyway, that's my story, but... I think it's important not to forget what the real purpose of drum corps is and unfortunately it isn't my entertainment. That's on the list but maybe 8th 9th in priority. It's really about providing an experience that will benefit the marching members, not the fans (like me) or the staff or even DCI, however that happens. So when I hear people (or myself) whine about corps not playing the right kind of music or, playing the right horn, I have to remind myself of that it's not about me anymore. I don't know this for a fact but I think while most marching members think old drum corps is pretty cool, they are probably happy with what it's become though tastes will still vary. If that is the case, it's pretty unlikely IMO that you'd find a corps willing leave DCI, even if a corps director wanted to. In reality, DCI's new rules are liberating, corps can now be about as dorky as they want to be and that is probably the way it should be.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think DCI is forcing corps to use amps, mics, bass guitars, synths or even three valve horns. For the most part, it's the corps staff that make those decisions, DCI just allows it. If some corps wanted to march their tympani I'm sure they could. I'm pretty sure drum corps is what it is today because that's what the people involved want it to be so the only secession I can foresee would be some of the fans.

no thanks, hope I'm not being rude.

Yeah, It's pretty cool eh?

They didn't really need amps because the recording mics are right up front. It doesn't sound that good in the stands when they are not amp'd. Look, I hate mics, synths, bass guitars (and I play bass) and a lot of other new crap. I wish they still played 2 valve g horns but I have to agree that the pits sound much better now. WAY to loud but much better. I wish they would have come up with a natural acoustic way of projecting pit percussion but they didn't.

I think he's saying that he'd like this natural selection (evolution) to wipe out the dinosaur that is DCI so something better (DCA?) will take it's place. ehh, looks like someone beat me to it.

Ahh, a pit (orchestra) inside the pit.

Woodwinds in drum corps? I don't worry about this at all. I don't think any of us will ever see a sax line in a group that calls its self a drum corps. Too many people would stop supporting the activity and what's to gain? Yuck!

I don't like mic'd pits either but the equipment is very expensive and like the other poster mentioned take a real beating. The mic'd pit also sounds so much better and allows the players to not only be heard but to play correctly...like another poster stated. As to the overall sound of drum corps since the days that I marched, it's probably the single biggest improvement in creating a more musical ensemble. For those two reasons I accept them. I'm not sure how many here really remember what pits sounded like in the pre mic years but I guess you can go back and listen..."ping, ping, ping, clang". My only real complaint is that they are WAY to loud. As to other mics, electronic instruments and synts? YUCK, dangerous waters (MO). I played electric bass professionally (even toured with KISS, RadioHead and a mess of other bands) for 10 years but would never want to play bass guitar in a drum corps show, so it's not just prejudges against the instrument, I just don't think they belong out there, my $.02 anyway.

Finally! Glad you said that, since I never marched with the Scouts so I can't really speak with any authority on the subject but I'm glad to hear something positive coming from the inside. I'm committing myself to finding some way of helping the corps even if I have to eat peanut butter and jelly for 2 weeks again...though I hope it doesn't come to that, last time it was pretty gross by the end.

The guy who rode next to me on the bus was in Sky Ryders the marching band while I was in Sky Ryders the Drum Corps because our experiences were different? Just kidding. This morning I watched 20 min of BOA and agree that drum corps is easily different enough to have it's own name.

I also agree with your post Gary, Except on one point, drum corps really are bands, four guys shaking gravel through Coke cans are a band. I do understand why you...and I don't call drum corps a band though. It's confusing, and we don't really want our type of band (drum corps) to be mistaken for...uh, well...for lack of a better word, "band." drum corp is a distinctive type of band. I like drum corps but I don't like band...well not nearly as much, I'd never go to anything called a marching band contest, even though a drum corps show is a marching band contest. See what I mean? Anyway, if any of my friends ever accused me of spending the summer doing "band" I might punch them in the nose...well not really but you get the idea.

The Scouts have an intangible quality that no other corps has, scores be ######, if I were 18 know where I'd be headed next summer.

Yeah, I just listened to Time Check, that would be pretty cool but they probably already know exactly what the program will be.

Guys the show is not the problem, I hope I'm not coming off like a know it all type but I don't think the problem is with uniforms, latin music, identity, concepts or design. The 09 program really was (IMO) one of the best in Scout history but although they performed it very well, I don't feel that it was well milked. For the Scouts, the Latin thing is really cool but they don't need it, not at all nor do they need to do away with it as long as music works, it's fine. What they need is more mature talent (and I don't mean age), better milking of whatever show they have and more than anything, not to give up, EVER, EVER,EVER. What should matter more than anything is not what the judges or anyone else thinks but how much they respect their own art, corp esteem. Being cool is far more important than being named the best and if you don't believe that, you probably don't get Hendrix or a lot of other important art either. I personally do think that the Scouts are the coolest and one of the most important drum corps in DCI and I say that not because of their rich past but because the preset. I'm not close the any members or staff, it's just what I believe and I'm right. Do I think they were fairly judged in 09? Yes I do. But where the judges decide to place the Scouts make no difference to me whatsoever. And it shouldn't to the corps members either. The staff can worry about that. ....you know what? I just watched their show again and it sort of looks like they ran out of time in the season and couldn't get everything fixed but this totally an outsiders point of view.

Cool

Yep, I can do without that stuff too but I have faith that drum corps will right it's self, by it's self and not because there are rules restricting them. In fact there seems to be less of it already.

Traditions will survive as long as the corps members and staffs want them too, it's there's to to with what they may really. As to surviving, I'm one the 2 valve, loud horn line, anti keyboard/mic (except pit) guys and I think DCI is doing quite well actually. Sure it cost way too much and there should be more corps but DCI, progressive show concepts or casting off old and dear traditions (like 2 valved horns) can't be blamed for peoples general disinterest in the performing arts over the last few decades. I really like the new shows, I'm glad that drums corps have outgrown Ice Castles. The fact that the shows are a little weird is a good thing. It's not just about entertainment, it's about education and exposure to new things, for the corps members and audience as well. I think the key as a fan is to allow yourself to be enlightened. When a show is over my head, I research it, just my 2 cents.

I marched DCI but only had one semester of college, then I toured with a grunge rock band through the 90's playing bass. The touring lifestyle and performing everyday clearly was the thing that stuck the most...changed my life forever. Maybe a bit off topic but... Right now I'm in Guatemala, riding my motorcycle to the bottom of South America. I wish I were playing my way down there but I guess the motorcycle will have to do. As to the direction of drum corps? I don't like everything but over all, I still love it. I love it enough to sit in front of a tiny laptop for 3+ hrs trying to watch the live broadcast on a 3rd world slow connection...practically no visual, only audio...and I'm one of the hardcore 2 valve guys too. Despite changes that I don't agree with, it's better than ever!