Brad T.

Someone posted a few pages ago that Cadets2 will help local band programs. Granted, while the idea of a weekends only drum corps that betters individual students' marching and playing abilities is a wonderful thing. One must consider that the DCA season is 3 weeks later than the DCI season. For the most part, if a high school program has a very competitive unit, a student participating in DCI would miss perhaps a pre-camp or two before their big band camp(s). The same student would miss far less rehearsal during the week, but ultimately miss one or two weekends of football games and band shows. In Ohio, most high schools start their football season a weekend before Labor Day. I'm not sure how it is elsewhere. Also, it should be noted that Labor Day weekend is the first NCAA college football Saturday, so college aged members who are in large marching bands with strict attendance policies are also in a similar boat. There are issues with getting college students from Ohio State, the University of Cincinnati, and etc. just because of the college band attendance policies. Often, both in high school and college, some directors who either have strict attendance, or just don't really "get" drum corps will issue an ultimatum: band or corps. I recall an issue we had last season. Two students came from the same high school. Both marched in our corps. The band director let them out of weekend band camps and everything to come to rehearsal. However, this director refused to let these students miss the football game and band competition on the weekend of DCA championships. So we had two talented musicians with us up until the big show when they were not allowed to go. Our staff talked to the director many times, but the band director just wouldn't have it. It seems that DCI is a much better venue for students because of the early-August ending. DCA is ideal for us who do not have marching band commitments on the same weekends as Championships and everything else. That's why Cadets2 is going to be tricky. If they cater to mainly the area around Allentown, you may have large chunks or school bands wanting to join. If you get 7 people from a high school band with 60 students, they will be hurting at the performances that coincide with DCA Championships. I don't know how other corps handle this situation, or for that matter, how high schools and colleges handle it. My high school wouldn't have been too upset if I was involved in DCA on Labor Day weekend; we didn't compete and often missed 1/4 of our 35 piece band due to sports conflicts.

Are there any other "free blowing" contras out there? I find that the Olds piston/rotor (which I assume is the BU-20) plays very open, similar to the K-90. But the K-90 basically feels like my CC tuba that I had bored out and overhauled. That small 5 valve German tuba can play just as full as the K-90 with my ability. The Dynasty 3 valve horn I own is just so stuffy. I feel like I'm pouring air into it and the more air I put in, the harder it is to play. I've cleaned the horn out religiously... maybe it's all the dents on the main tubing about a full turn and a quarter from the bell-end of the horn...

At the Dayton Open Class show yesterday, I was given a unique opportunity by the director of Les Stentors to play their one and only King K-90 Contra. The horn was coming apart and had almost no plating left, but holy cow do those horns sound amazing! Therefore, I'm looking for either an original 2 valve or converted 3 valve K-90. Any help would be appreciated!

If you do a video audition, most likely. Check out YouTube for various video auditions. Contra auditions are some of the most comical, watching people wear a concert tuba as a shoulder contra for the marching fundamentals. If you do an in-person audition, and they have the instruments available, you will likely be playing a marching euphonium at the audition. This isn't just limited to the Crusaders, this goes for many other corps as well.

My corps director is going to bring all of the leadpipes he has to our next rehearsal. I'm going to assume the Smith contra is actually a standard-bore contra as opposed to a small-bore like the baby Getzen. I'm going to use just plain "one of these things is not like the other" to try and pick out the Smith leadpipe. It doesn't help that the baby Getzen, Olds, and Dynasty II leadpipes all look basically the same, except for the hex stock receiver on the Getzens. Perhaps I am holding the Ultratone contra incorrectly in the first place. I hold the Smith horn with the palm of my hand around the non-moveable section of the leadpipe, fingers resting on the piston, thumb is in a nice position to operate the piston. On the Olds, I try that grip and my thumb doesn't make it, especially with gloves on. I resorted to grabbing tubing on the underside of the piston, and even wedging my fingers in between the leadpipe and piston (not much room) to get a better angle on operating the piston. Perhaps if someone can teach me a quick 1970s Contra 101 lesson, I may be more apt to pick up an Olds contra. I must say, aside from not knowing how to hold it, the thing plays extremely well. When I think of valve/rotor contras, I think of recordings of the 1970s with just blatty bass noise. I get plenty of that from a baby Getzen and the Smith horn. The Olds is almost like playing a concert tuba in G. That's more than I can say some days for my regular-use Dynasty 3-valver...

Since the leadpipe for the horn is incorrect, do you, or anyone else, know what leadpipe will work? I have not purchased this horn yet, this is from the collection of Cincinnat Tradition, as is the baby Getzen I also currently house. I'd like to buy a piston/rotor Contra, in the "old world" style as you refer to, but I'd like to have one that has all of its faculties, such as correct leadpipe. Otherwise I may have to spend an afternoon at the storage location and just dig through contras until I find one reasonably intact. I may just break down and buy one of our Ultratone Contras, but I really don't want to because I just don't like the setup for holding/playing the piston. There's no real brace to hold on to or anything - just shove your hand in there and play... (insert a "that's what she said" joke if you like).

Mine does not have a slip slide. However, to compensate, every single length of tubing is entirely too long. When the horn is in-tune with no valves, the rotor is about 3/4 step flat, and the valve is about 1-1/2 steps flat. I have to lip up significantly to play E and A, lip down only slightly for E-flat and A-flat, and low D and D-flat are also possible with heavy lip bending. Perhaps mine doesn't have the correct mouthpiece receiver... It uses a leadpipe similar to that of a baby Getzen... unless someone threw a baby Getzen leadpipe on this horn in the past... Edit: Let me add some illustrations to the post. Also, this shall bring back some *hopefully* fond memories for some! The operator's side: The other side: Closeup of the valve/rotor section showing leadpipe with Bach 25 E-flat tuba mouthpiece: Closeup of the same location, this time with a standard Helleberg to show how poorly a standard tuba mouthpiece fits:

My only thought is that all-age means just that... All-age. With this Cadets 2 nonsense about being only 16-22, and the possibility of other DCI corps following suit by fielding 16-22 "all-age" corps, I think they will do nothing but pollute the talent pool of DCA. DCA has been all-age for decades, and corps pride themselves on the fact that people from all walks of life can go out there and perform a show to the best of their ability. You have high school students who barely know what drum corps is marching for the first time next to 30-40... even 50+ year old veterans who have been involved in the activity for many years still playing and marching because it's in their blood. There are people like myself who march DCA because we never had the opportunity to march DCI when we were "of age." Whether it be because of financial or time commitments, there are reasons galore that a person would not be able to march DCI. I joined a DCA corps when I got a little older and was able to find time to do it. I would hate for DCA to run away with this idea that letting corps have a maximum age of 22 be the standard. To me, DCA means ALL age. It completely astonishes me that the DCA governing body even would allow an age cap. I understand minimum age requirements, but not maximums. Anyone who is interested in drum corps can join and play, and if they are younger, eventually move up to DCI. I fear that the only thing Cadets 2 will bring is a wave of youngsters who will blow every Open Class corps out of the water just because of the physical ability of a drum corps consisting entirely of 16-22 year olds. The Reading Buccaneers win championships with a mixed bag of ages. Yes, plenty of young folks, but also plenty of older folks who are alumni of many fantastic corps. It's no secret that older performers just aren't in the same shape as teenagers. I'm in my mid-20s, and I even feel old compared to how I did just 10 years ago in high school. I would completely support Cadets 2 if they were actually ALL AGE. Until then, in my opinion, they will do nothing but destroy DCA Open Class. The young performers will see Cadets 2 and scramble to join, leaving their other corps in the dust. Their previous corps, now devoid of their 16-22 base, will have to try and survive without those young performers. And for corps in Class A, losing that age range would mean the difference between fielding a corps and not.

I'm looking to buy a European/Small Shank/Eb tuba mouthpiece to use in my Smith Music Sales 1960s Contra. Currently I'm using an ancient Bach (Mt. Vernon stamp) 25 that I'm borrowing from a school that has Eb tubas that are not used. This mouthpiece fits correctly in the receiver on my leadpipe and produces an "adequate" tone. I'm guessing most of the tone issues are based with the horn, and not the mouthpiece. Anyway, the school would like their Bach 25 back, and I need a mouthpiece that will fit in my horn. I've tried bass trombone mouthpieces, and while they fit perfectly, they sound like garbage and I can't even play the lower register since the cup is so small. I'm looking for an Eb tuba mouthpiece most of all since they are designed for horns that are smaller in general, and while a Contra has almost twice the natural length of tubing as an Eb tuba, the bore is so narrow that regular tuba mouthpieces including both the Helleberg and the Helleberg 7B put way to much air into the horn and I just get all back pressure and very little sound. That plus the Helleberg mouthpieces only go into the receiver about 1/4 inch and they come out very easily... Obviously not for such a tiny bore horn. Does anyone know where I can find a mouthpiece similar to the Bach 25 with the small shank? Or maybe someone out there has an old contra mouthpiece from back in the day they'd be willing to sell? Thanks!

Modern G horns typically are built similarly to their Bb counterparts, except most notably the Soprano. If you put a piston/rotor contrabass next to a concert tuba, you will immediately notice the differences in bore shape and size. My C tuba and my piston/rotor contra are the same height (when stood on the bell) and have a similar diameter bell. The contra has significantly more cylindrical tubing, which allows for greater projection. This construction style is evident even through the two valve era across all voices. So yes, it would be incorrect to call a soprano bugle a trumpet or a contrabass a tuba. Wikipedia has a fantastic name for G horns used in drum corps: Competition Bugles. This shows that not only are they NOT the valveless military bugles of the early 20th century, they are also NOT the multi key horns used by the majority of the activity today. I call Bb "sopranos" trumpets, and Bb "contrabasses" tubas. I've been corrected before by someone saying his horn was a contra, and I asked if it was Bb or G. He said Bb, so I said, "It's a tuba. Not a bugle." To me, a group playing on multi-key brass is a marching brass band. A brass band has cornets in Eb, trumpets or cornets in Bb, flugelhorns in Bb, horns in F or Eb, baritones, euphoniums in Bb, and tubas in Eb and/or Bb. Todays DCI corps have trumpets in Bb, flugelhorns in Bb (Crossmen this season), horns in F, baris and euphs in Bb, and tubas in Bb. Aside from missing the Eb cornet, instrumentation is nearly the same. I think there are plenty of great sounding hornlines that use Bb. But there is a certain presence that is missing. The overtone series of G bugles, and their previous styles of construction, allowed for very deep dark chords in the low brass with very penetrating high brass. Almost organ-like. Yes, you can get the same organ-like quality out of a Bb line, but the overtones just aren't there. To me, the most noticeable voice is the baritone. A G baritone has a much warmer sound in an ensemble than Bb. But once you crank up the volume, they get a trombone like quality.

I have a 3v G contra that I play in my corps, and a P/R contra for my own personal amusement. I find that the P/R horn is super easy to just rip loud noises through, and intonation is so questionable that I can still play a chomatic-esque scale with only those two valves. However, my 3v contra is so stuffy that I'm routinely told to play louder, and find I basically have to breathe every other measure to play at any appreciable volume. Something I don't need with my C tuba. It's all about manufacturer quality I suppose. But I also applaud Platinum for keeping to the tradition of playing bugles in a drum and bugle corps.

I recently picked up a Smith Music Sales piston/rotor Contra. I've seen other various Smith Music bugles all over ebay through the years. Does anyone have any information about the company? Where they were from, how long they were in business, etc? It seems like they may have been somewhat popular, but not up to snuff with the big guys like Olds and Getzen. Thanks all!

Hi everyone, I just wanted to put my name out there that I am a bus driver and that I will be available to drive over this coming tour season, especially in June. I perform in a DCA corps and the bulk of our shows are in July and August, and my full time employment is seasonal, meaning I'm off from June until Labor Day. I have a Class B CDL with passenger and air brake endorsements, have experience driving 35', 40', and 45' transit and charter buses, and typically work 3rd shift, so night driving is not only not a problem, it's preferred. I live in Ohio, and would have no problem meeting up with any corps traveling through the state to drive for several days or so. If you are interested, please PM me, and I can give you further details. Thanks!

Whether or not they compete, I'm not sure. But there is a small town in Ohio called St. Marys. Their high school has an all brass and percussion marching band. They are patterned after a hybrid corps/military style. The instrumentation includes Bb trumpets, F mellophones, Bb trombones, Bb corps style baritones and Bb Sousaphones. Here is a link to their website. It doesn't seem to work right, but if you scroll down, there's a picture of them in the gym bleachers for some sort of rally.

Unless of course that person is a single member of their section. I've played tuba/sousaphone/contra in ensembles as small as 8 brass as the only bass voice, as large as 20-25 brass as the only bass voice, and on the complete opposite end, in ensembles as large as 150-200 brass with a tuba section as large as 18-20 members. The rule of thumb, regardless of one bass or 50... Always listen down. When your foundation is solid, the ensemble will be solid. When the foundation is sandy... or in other words, not so good or just lacking... the ensemble will falter. That is not to say basses are better than any other of the voices. When you hear a great pipe organ playing a huge chorale with awesome chords at the end, and the organist decides to omit the deep bass notes on the pedal board, something just seems like it's missing. The performance was still spectacular, but there's something about a little bit of rumbling bass that makes the audience go "Ooo" and "Ahh"

I have a small collection of various G bugles, from single piston to three piston and most configurations in between. I'm also borrowing a baby Getzen Contra from my corps, and yes, you literally can play any note on it because it's such an oddly designed horn. I've never played on a piston/rotor or two-valve horn that is entirely chromatic in the natural range of the tubing length. This means that chromatic notes on a Frenchie don't count, since it's basically a baritone bugle length of tubing played up an octave.

Dynasty Bugles Looks like they only make four models anymore. They used to make a lot more, including a 4 valve contra.

Wow... this Stu individual needs to just unwind a little bit. Next you're going to tell us that Ziggy Kanstul is the antichrist for trying to make G bugles more refined musical instruments back in the 70s. I have started playing my G contra in my school's pep band, up against 16 other Sousaphone players. Why? Because I know my G contra plays and sounds far better than a Conn 20K Bb Sousaphone. To back up HornsUp, you've seen one post by a high school director who has benefited from buying Crossmen baritones. That's fine and more power to them. However, as HornsUp said, for every drum corps that sells equipment, there's probably 1000 high school or college marching and pep bands that would not be able to secure said deal. My high school was one of those 1000. In my 4 years of high school band, we purchased one instrument, a Yamaha 4/4 size convertible tuba. And I didn't even like playing the thing because I didn't like the way it played. My school didn't give the band program a very large budget, and the parents' organization responsible for fund raising and whatnot was being operated by 5 people. There was no way to get money because students didn't care and didn't want parental involvement. In all of my years of marching in high school, I played on a King fiberglass Sousaphone built in 1979 and was being held together by tape, automotive bondo, and painted with spray paint to cover up the cracks and scars. I know what it's like to come from a program with nothing. So I see no reason why corps (that, probably before your time Stu) which came from literally nothing but the drummers and buglers from WWI, can't go back to their simpler roots. And honestly, unless it's a concert setting, I would have no problem letting students play whatever horn they felt comfortable on. If they wanted to play a G soprano instead of a Bb trumpet, fine. Marching G or Bb baritone instead of trombone? Fine. Stu seems to be more of the mindset of a venture capitalist, bowing before the almighty dollar. The rest of us are musicians and frankly amateur historians. I've never once seen people get bent out of shape about a steam train visiting a city to give rides and picture opportunities. It's a piece of living history that people respect. Honestly, that's what G bugles are to drum corps: a living, tangible piece of our history. When a corps shows up with G bugles, some people start talking, and start learning. Others... just admonish the corps telling them they've wasted so much money because there is no resale value. To me, drum corps is a business. But the business is entertainment. Just like any other musician/ensemble. To others on this board, drum corps appears to be nothing more than a middle man. Like some mom and pop grocery store. The store buys from a big warehouse, then marks up all the prices to re-sell their goods and turn a profit. Last I heard drum corps isn't in the business of selling anything except entertainment and souvenirs, not the actual tangible equipment that encompasses the heart of the program. Anyway, I digress... I feel as though for every one person who prefers G bugles in a drum and BUGLE corps, there's at least 10 who prefer marching band instruments. It's a losing battle and oddly enough like talking to a brick wall.

And most of the people my generation and younger don't even realize that drum corps played in a different key, or even understand the concept of less than three valves. As such, the marketing scheme can continue to grow. The major downfall to it though is with students and band directors who are not primarily brass players: Crown gets a line of Yamaha horns. Crown kicks all of the other hornlines in the rear. Crown sells said hornline to turn a quick buck. Well Johnny Q. Student and Professor Reedy Saxophone see Crown's score and firmly believe that if they buy Yamaha, or better yet, Crown's exact instruments, they will immediately sound like Crown. Any experienced player will tell you that's not the case. In any regard, G or Bb, it does not matter. I've played on some absolutely terrible Bb instruments. My G contra plays amazingly well. These theories that G bugles are harder to play and impossible to tune are merely hearsay, in my opinion. In these days of "Tune Any Note" tuning slides and advanced designs, the only major difference between the basic bugles (Sop, Mello, Bari, Contra) and any-key marching brass families is the length of the tubing. As my former tuba professor once told me, "The horn is just a megaphone for your lips. It doesn't matter how good or bad of a horn you have. If you can play... it will play." But of course, this is the 21st century, and it's all about money, and making more money than your competitors. Why should anyone play on G when so much more money can be made exploiting high schools and colleges. To be honest, I don't see many high schools or colleges sporting huge lines of marching baritones in lieu of trombones, or shoulder tubas in lieu of Sousaphones. Obviously schools are either hanging on to these for decades or just paying full price for them.

I still don't understand what the fascination is with buying brand new horns every season... Yes, horns will break beyond repair, but at that point replace them. Not the entire line, every year. That is hardly cost effective or intelligent, in my mind. When I was instrument manager for the Ohio State Univ. Marching Band, there were people marching horns that were brand new that season next to people playing on horns, still in very good, useable condition, from the 1970s. Back in the day, when corps were on G, they bought only what they needed, and took care of the rest of the line. Once they were too far gone to be of practical use, they sold them to smaller corps or sold them off to collectors. This culture of "disposable assests" is getting the corps in the monetary problems they have these days. Some groups feel they can mark up horns 150% of what they bought them for, because schools are looking for cheap/used band instruments, and collectors want a piece of history. Then, when they can't sell the entire line, they run into the red because the money that was expected is not there. There is absolutely no reason any corps should be buying (even at an extreme discount) a new hornline every single season. It's all a part of the disposable asset culture that is driving drum corps as a whole into oblivion. These corps are competing on the field for bragging rights and off the field to see who can fold because of bankruptcy first. The reason corps survived as long as it has was because the generation that lived through the Great Depression understood what it meant to not have anything. Those people helped to keep drum corps as relevant and sustainable as long as possible. When the Depression era folks started retiring, the next generation came in, who had no clue what it meant to not have anything, since they only knew prosperity after WWII. It's completely evident just in the evolution of drum corps horn lines from inception to present. Think of marching bands as being a sled to carry goods and drum corps as being the first wheel ever invented. Every decade since the late 1960s the drum corps wheel has been reinvented. So much so that today, the wheel has been reinvented as a sled, similar in design and fashion to the sled that remained constant with the marching band. I just hope that drum corps doesn't lose touch with what it used to be. And you all may think I'm some old fart who longs for the past days. Well, I'm 23, and I just know that you aren't supposed to fix what isn't broken. Drum corps wasn't broken, but now... Now it is.

Only having BBb tuba experience is not a problem these days. All of the World Class and most Open Class DCI corps are on BBb contras. I can think of maybe 2 or 3 Open Class corps on GG contras. Since you aren't looking for Open Class DCI or any DCA corps, there is no worry/issue with trying to figure out GG contra music. If you were curious however, GG contra music can be read in concert pitch bass clef, transposed treble clef, or a wacky transposed bass clef that would take the open partials of the G horn (G, D, and G) and transpose them to the bass clef's Bb, F, and Bb (supposedly useful for BBb tuba players who can't read transposed treble clef and can't figure out the new fingering pattern of a G horn in concert pitch). I just find it confusing and unnecessary.

Before you concern yourself with special playing techniques, you gotta be able to hold the things properly. Depending on any sports or other activities you may do, holding a contra may come easy or difficult. For me, since I really don't do any physical activity aside from drum corps, my first few months holding the contra during indoor rehearsals were slightly painful. Now it's not so bad. Of course, any GG contra (ie. Open Class DCI or DCA corps only) with 3 or 4 valves will be noticeably heavier than any 3 valve BBb contra. However, my GG contra is still not as heavy as my 5 valve CC tuba. As far as playing goes, most BBb contras will play exactly the same as a BBb tuba. They don't play the same as a Sousaphone though. You can get a lot more edge and power behind the notes on a contra than a Sousaphone. Imagine playing a concert tuba, except not holding back so as to not overpower the woodwinds in the concert auditorium. The GG contra takes some work however, since everything is a minor third lower, so even more air is required to play, well... everything. Once you master the secrets of the particular model of horn you will be on, you will learn to be a strong and "robust" player. This past season a DCI judge remarked on the comment tapes that I had a very robust sound, which is not a line you hear very often. They may have been referring to the fact that as one of two contras I was pretty much heard over the rest of the low brass and I wasn't really forcing it out! Contra is like a bike, once you get the hang of it, it becomes easier and more fun, and then you get bored and start doing tricks and showing off... That's when I&E contests start getting appealing!

I'm looking to buy the Phantom Regiment "Hornline: Contra" patch that is no longer available on their website. They seem to be the only group to make any sort of section patch like that. The only other website I can find sells Tuba or Contrabass Clarinet section patches. Now, I can understand the popularity of a "tuba" section patch, but seriously, there are that many high school students who play contrabass clarinet to warrant the creation of a such patch? This particular website sells all sorts of in-stock band/choir patches, and I find it strange that they couldn't just sell "clarinet." They sell "alto clarinet," "bass clarinet," and the aforementioned "contrabass clarinet," in addition to the standard "clarinet" patch. Seriously? Clarinets are that popular...? Anyway, I would like to find a black with white lettering "Contra(bass)" patch, or the PR style two color lettering "Hornline: Contra" patch. Also, if anyone knows of any Dynasty logo patches, I'd like to buy one of those too. I'm looking for the old Dynasty logo, with the 70's cursive writing and the shield with the letter D inside, not the current underlined version. Thanks!

The only thing I've noticed in regards to the 2 piston + rotor setup on the USMC Contras is that the valves function exactly the same as on any other two valved horn (ie. valve one is a full step and valve two is a half step) while the rotor is also set up like a traditional rotor (ie. half step). So this would mean that these contras are still non-chromatic, but they can be lowered by: half step, full step, step-and-a-half, and two steps.

For me, when I was in high school, I didn't have the opportunity to march DCI, mainly because of the cost. I lived in Cleveland, and was within a 2 hour drive of 4 DCI corps: Bluecoats, Glassmen, Cap. Reg., and Marion Glory Cadets. All of them were entirely too expensive for me. So I had to give up any ideas about DCI just because of price. However, another issue was competition. My high school band was a program that was falling apart: the director was near retirement, the administration hated band, and students were in marching band for the "easy A." As such we had 40 people in marching band, most of which did not memorize their music, and some of which could not even walk on the correct foot or even on the beat. The director didn't care because the students didn't care, and they would blatantly tell him so. As such, he would throw out every mailed invitation and turn down every phone invitation to marching band festivals or contests. So I never once performed on a field in a competition. I had no idea how I would stack up against other people trying out on my instrument. When I got to college, I tried out for the Ohio State Univ. Marching Band. Once again, I had no idea what competition was, since I was naturally just the best performer in the entire HS band, since most purposely goofed off and would under perform. Obviously I did not make the OSU Band, and decided not to try out after that. What does all of this have to do with the topic? Here goes: There are plenty of young men and women who would love to be a part of something great like drum corps. However, many of these people come from families who have very little income, or, as in my case, have to pay to go to Catholic high school because the city's public schools were dangerous and had a <50% graduation rate. Because of that, there wasn't extra spending money. Drum corps needs to become a more community oriented program. If you ignore the community you claim to be based in, you alienate the children of that community. For example, Blue Stars, based in Wisconsin, have rehearsals in Indianapolis. What gives? You can't be a Wisconsin corps and expect interest from people in Wisconsin if you don't rehearse there or do community events there. In general, there seems to be too much focus on obscure markets hours away from the "home base" of the corps. Bring the corps back home, if you will, and your home will be appreciative. The people from all over who want to try out for XYZ corps obviously have the money to do so, so they will still come regardless of where the home city is. There is no reason that corps have to be so expensive. Yes, fuel, maintenance, uniforms, instruments, food, etc. cost money. I know those things aren't free. But you don't need to buy new uniforms every year. You don't need to play on brand new horns every single season. At my high school, the fiberglass Sousaphone I played on was over 30 years old. It was repainted with car paint and the broken pieces were held together by car bondo and white athletic tape. I've read countless stories of the drum corps of the 70s and 80s having the kids play on horns older than them. You can't make any more changes to marching brass aside from adding concert tubas, French horns, trombones, and Sousaphones, so you can keep a line of marching brass for more than one season. If fuel is killing a corps, don't go on tour so early. My DCA corps doesn't even have a bus or charter contract, we are on our own to get to shows. Have more local shows. I don't know how to do that, but regardless, either do DCA/DCI shows, or regional DCI shows. The next two are contradictions, sort of. First has to deal with people like myself who never had a high school program that was challenging or competitive. The idea of the tryout process for many drum corps makes a lot of people nervous or not even bother to go to camps. There's no incentive if you feel that you're an underdog anyways. More less competitive programs need to come up. And not like these "cadet" corps that only allow people age 12-15 or whatever. There are plenty of people who would like to be in a "cadet" style, less competitive (internally, for placement) corps so they can get a taste of what drum corps is all about. It seems that the way corps pander to only specific people (competitive marchers who are also music majors or equivalent musical ability) is also shooting them in the foot by not allowing other people to garner interest. The contradiction of sorts to this has to do with competition. Every year, the OSUMB has 225 members. The instrumentation does not change. The intensity of shows, the traditions on game day, and the competition of tryouts is what keeps the band from having issues filling this instrumentation plan. Every year, anywhere between 350-500 musicians try out for those 225 spots. You get 40-50 tuba players for 28 spots just because most of them want the honor of dotting the "i." There are traditions that the band has that are kept super secret from the new rookies until a special "inititaion" night when they are finally considered worthy, if you will, of learning the secrets. Yes, looking back on it, the "secrets of the OSUMB" may seem stupid, silly, or childish, but it was a big deal at the time because of the traditions associated with the 130+ year old band. The band does "new" things all the time, but they keep their intensity and drive - the "meat" someone referred to earlier - which keeps everyone coming back to the table. The OSU Athletic Band, which plays at hockey, basketball, volleyball, etc. comprises many of the OSUMB members as well as directing staff. It is often used as an experimentation ground for new music for the OSUMB. A surprising hit with the fans is a custom arrangement of Lady Gaga's "Bad Romance." If you have ever been to an OSU game, the stands are packed for pre-game shows. The fight songs, script Ohio, etc. - the Tradition. For halftime, the stands are half full at best unless people hear through the grapevine that the show is going to be "f***in' awesome." There were tons of classical shows with pretty music that no one was interested in, but when the band formed the Titanic and "sank it" or when the band danced to "Thriller" the crowd went wild. I personally love old drum corps stuff. I've heard shows from the past 5 or 6 years, and in general, they're boring to me. It's all about abstract music, complex themes, complex dance themes for the guard, and "concert" style playing. I love listening to CDs of the 70s to 90s. Just pure, in your face, sound. You could peel paint with the volume of some corps. Just because you picked a theme didn't mean you stuck with it (ie. 1978 Phantom - "Firebird" that quickly fell into "Into the Hall of the Mountain King" and ended with Beethoven's 9th. A guard that twirled flags and dressed similar to the corps? How obscure! I think the poster with the comment about meat was dead on. Right now drum corps shows remind me of a Vegan wedding. I've been to one. When the food came out, half of us were ready to sneak out down the street to the BBQ joint. If you put a giant mushroom on the plate garnished with other "organic" vegetables, you're going to leave hungry (unless you're a Vegan). If you put a big slice of meat on the table, you're going to feast and want more. Don't like meat? Maybe, just maybe, we can find a way to make our "Vegan wedding" drum corps become more like Home Town Buffet. We need to get a little bit of everything. Yes, that means laying off some of the things I've seen in the past few seasons, and we need to bring back some things that have been stripped away. I want my "Vegan" friend to get what they want out of the show, theatrics, amps, etc. at the same time I get my meat and potatoes: in your face playing, easy/popular themes.