Threats

Do you understand what Visual Performance is? It doesn't sound like you do. Think of Visual Performance as "Marching and Maneuvering." It's HOW they march. Not how pretty the forms are. Not how well-integrated the guard is. Not how seamless the transitions are. And certainly not how easy or difficult the guard work is. HOW they march. As in...toes are up, little to no phasing, very few out of step, good posture, good horn carriage, etc. You know, the type of thing you can only really see up close if you are a judge on the field. Please don't be in a rush to offer your expertise if you're not sure how the captions work. YES, both BAC and BS had better overall visual products. But PR still knows how to march pretty well. THAT is what he was talking about.

Just watched 2004 Glassmen....it seems they changed their uni by that year, they had removed the triangle for sure. I don't think it was as effective as the look they had from 1998-2002. I wonder if PR could do something like that if they ever decide to change unis again. Instead of a triangle in the front, a chevron? Nah, I cna't picture it. They just need to add the black accents again.

Well, you may have been a member since 2004, but I have a feeling you won't be one much longer. Pippitone knows his stuff. Cadets had new people. It takes some time for your beloved drumline to adjust...they can't ALWAYS be great, you know? I love how judges are ONLY right when they score the corps you love highly. I have a friend who praised a particular judge for "really getting it" one year (the year his brass line placed very highly), and then he was blasting the same judge the following year as being a hack. Ah, human nature. Why must you be so fickle?

The one from 1998...I think it was the same for a few years after that....I remember seeing them again in 2002 and I didnt think the uni had changed, except maybe they got rid of the triangle in the front.

So, I've been doing a little bit of diging around and asking a few PR alumni friends of mine about the various years as far as visual design is concerned...because honestly, I was pretty sure I rememebered a time when Phantom was one of the better corps, visually speaking. I started to wonder how did they go from that to what we have today and I hope DCP can help fill in some blanks here. 2008-? New guy. Don't know his name. On the one hand, he has a title under his belt. On the other hand, he also has a bottom three ranking in GE and Ensemble Visual under his belt as well. Future undecided. 2005-2007 - Jamie Thomson. I liked 2005 and 2006, though they were very effective drills. 2007 was a miss, but that can happen to any drill designer...was he "retired" because of the 2007 drill? If so, that is a shame. I liked this guy's designs when he was with Glassmen too. 2002-2004 - ? Most of the alumni I know are older, so I don't know anyone who knows who the drill writer was, but I am sure someone here can. Was he let go, or did he move on to another corps? 2003 is the only show I am really familiar with, and I thought the drill was adequate. It seems to me that while corps like Cavaliers have figured out the right number of members in each section in order to make geometric forms a possibility, PR had not figured this out as of 2003. A lot of those blocks were uneven (like the one that has three rows of 4 and one row of 3....why not just make 3 rows of 5???) 2000-2001 - Leon May. Leon has since made a name for himself at Crown and Avon Park HS. Was he just starting out at this time? The drill from those years is ok, nothing spectacular, but not terrible. Was he also forced out? Someone told me that there used to be severe restrictions placed on the drill writer, and that Leon may have quit in frustration. 1999 - ? I remember seeing this show in Madison and thinking the drill was not that great. I don't know who wrote it. It could have been a down year for the corps in general. Felt like it. 1998 - Guard guy, then Ryan Hildreth from what I am told. Anyone know what happened to the original drill writer and why he had to be replaced mid-year? Was any of his drill used? 1997 - ? Unknown. But I like the drill. It's not terribly innovative, but it isn't bad. 1996 - Michael Cesario....is this right? I had no idea Michael wrote drill. It wasn't spectacular, but there are two moments that still bring me shivers: The mess-of-a-block that turns into a ###### wedge at the end of the opener, and the three arcs at the end of the show right before that chord that moved me to near tears in Orlando. 1995 - Steve Hegemiyer? Never heard of this guy. Any idea why he was only a one-and-done? 1993-1994 - Tony Hall. These were some really good drills. I used to hang with Tony when he worked with Garfield back in the late 80s, and he was (and still is, I am sure) a super nice guy. 19?? - 1992 - John Brazzalle (sp?) - PR had a good thing with Brazzalle. 1987 through 1991 especially have a lot of great moments. I don't know who wrote Phantom's drill before Brazzalle....anyone? In any case...what is to be done now? If you look at their past history, it seems they have had a slew of 1- or 2-year guys. Of course, that is no way to build a consistent team (how long has Mike Gaines been at Cavaliers or Jay Murphy at BD?) On the other hand, if you absolutely KNOW that this person does not have the goods, then you have to replace them, much like pulling off a bandage quickly. The problem is...there aren't a ton of really great drill designers out there right now, so unless the PR organization has the money to throw at Pete Weber or Myron Rosander or Kevin Ford, it's likely they are going to have to go with someone as equally untested as the current guy. So...let's say you are PR's executive director (do they even have one of those...? Someone who can really call teh shots, the way Hopkins does with Cadets?)....what do you do: a. Retain the drill writer, get a new guard design team, and hope for the best? b. Let the entire visual staff go and try to go out and hire the best people to represent you in this day of visually-oriented DCI? c. Other. I don't envy them their decision-making processes in the coming weeks, because they are going to have to move fast. I *do* wish them the best of luck, though. PR has recently re-converted me over to their phanhood, after a few years of "bleah, I don't care for this show" in the late 90s and early 00s. I really hope they can make themselves a contender again within two years, especially in this new landscape of tougher competition from spots 1 through 9. Sidebar: Thinking about Jamie's drills with Glassmen, I looked at their shows on Fancast again...that uniform REALLY helped sell some of the forms. Does anyone else think that PR's uniforms really don't help the drill from up top? Whenever they wear a mostly-white (like this year, when they have the silver sash, or last year with the golden sash), they seem to get lost. But when I look back at 1989 with the black sash and gloves, and the black cape, they seem to stand out more. Maybe PR needs to go back to the white with black accents instead of white with white? Twalk awmongst youwselfs....

Crown was never a cadet corps for the Cadets. This is misinformation, either out of snideness or ignorance.

Bye! Don't let the door hit ya where the good lord split ya!

The thing is, PR *has* been losing to those guys in the visual captions. They just have a strong enough hornline and drumline to compensate. If BAC and Blue Stars can clean up their horns and drums, then PR may very well be falling behind them at Finals. I really dig Boston's show, especially the visual aspects. Blue Stars I also enjoy, though to a lesser extent than Boston. I'll be rooting for those guys.

1. 2000 Niagara Falls 2. 2004 007 3. 2002 Frameworks 4. 2001 Four Corners 5. 2006 Machine 6. 2003 Spin Cycle 7. 2005 8. 2007 9. 2009 10. 2008 I think Niagara Falls is a fantastic display of visual and musical coordination. 007 was fantastic drill and great music...only thing i don't like is the ending, it was somewhat weak.

1. 2008 - Spartacus Don't understand how some people don't get it. Even if you don't get the storyline...great brass, great percussion, solid marching. 2. 2005 - Rhapsody Underrated. How is this show "weird?" It's a fairly straightforward interpretation of two Gershwin classes. And they marched and played the heck out of it. Should have beaten Cavaliers. 3. 2006 - Faust Again, should've beaten Cavaliers. Great, great hornline, great percussion, and very, very good visual design. In fact, probably PR's best drill design since 1993. I think this was some of Jamey's best work, LOVED all the religious symbolism in Ave Maria. 4. 2003 - Harmonic Journey I like the show, but it was very, very dirty...and the drill was terrible. Well, not as bad as this year's, but still not great. 5. 2007 - On Air I am not sure where this show went wrong. I was excited by the concept of it, but it somehow failed to deliver. 6. 2004 - Apasionada - 874 Great hornline, great brass book, but again, bad visual design. Those guard unis were not that great either. 7. 2002 - Heroic Sketches - The Passion of Shostakovich Good music. Bad drill. The story keeps going and going... 8. 2009 - The Red Violin I don't care for the show, but I think it is better than the shows from the early 00s. 9. 2001 - Virtuoso Bleah. Good music, bad drill. Again. 10. 2000 - The Masters of Mystique, The Dawn of Modern Music Too many rewrites left this show kinda sterile. And I really disliked the uni change.

1. 2006 - The Godfather 2-9. Everything else. 10. 2005 - Dance Derby of the Century

I never said politics don't play a part in the activity, so strike one. Politics and conspiracy theories are not mutually exclusive. Could one of the more storied corps of all time get a bit of a reprieve? Yeah, I suppose so. But if you look at recent history, you will see that they have not historically done so (late 90s, early 00s). Now...PR's drill may be pretty poorly designed, but it isn't as if they are just sitting around not moving. Those suckers are still hauling ###. Your implication that their horns play better because their drill is easy and poorly designed is way off base. I think PR moves faster than BAC....they just don't integrate guard as well,, or for that matter, make better pictures or transitions. If this was BD or the Cavaliers, then I could maybe see your point....but historically, with 5 2nd place finishes, I wouldn't say PR has gotten the benefit of the doubt, not even against corps that have not won a title (lost to Crossmen at Finals in 1992, lost to BK in 1999 and 2000, etc) If BAC and BS are better come Finals, they will beat PR. Simple as that. There is no conspiracy, and PR is not being kept above those two corps just because they are the defending champion. They are above them because they are scoring higher in certain areas. Now, if we start seeing PR beating those two in GE Visual and Visual Ensemble, you could have a reason to complain. Frankly, PR's hornline and drums are worlds better than BAC or BS. That's just my opinion. But it has been historically backed by numbers.

You are pretty amazing to be able to judge all facets of a drum corps show.... Fact of the matter is... Boston and Blue Stars may have a better visual product (well, there is no MAY about it...they flat out do), but last I checked, DCI judges its corps on both visual and musical products. And no matter what you think, PR has been consistently beating Blue Stars and BAC in music. From everything I have seen and heard with my own two ears, I'd have to say it is a deserved position, musically. So now the real question is....is their visual bad enough to make you (and others) overlook the other important components of a drum corps show? Their percussion is great. Their hornline is fabulous. PR has been losing out to BAC in the areas it deserves to lose....visual design and guard. And losing pretty hard, I might say...half a point down in GE Visual, for example. I know that we are a visually-driven medium these days, but you can't just judge one facet of a corps' show, you have to judge them all. No offense, but...it is pretty #### stupid to say that DCI won't "let" them fall lower than 7th. Sheer idiocy. You're saying DCI is going around and telling all the judges (including judges who marched in BAC and Blue Stars, perhaps, or in general judges who have no allegiance to PR) that they need to adjust their individual numbers, or they will sleep with the fishies? Think about the ridiculousness of what you are saying. You conspiracy theory buffs really tick me off. I wonder what school system raised you all to resort to this type of thinking when 30 seconds of some serious analytical thought would show you that a conspiracy like the one you are hinting at is not only impractical, but pretty #### illogical as well. DCI would have a better time marketing the fact that drum corps are so competitive that you can win a title one year and finish as low as 9th the next.

They added music and truncated other parts of the show (1994 PR), and Star basically re-wrote the entire last half of drill if I remember. Maybe took out some music too. Ill let people who marched those shows talk about what was changed...all I remember is that I liked both those shows early on, and then when i saw them again, I was not impressed.

1994 Phantom Regiment. When I saw that puppy in Merrilville, IN, it was very early in the year. Yeah, they were dirty as ####, but you could tell that was going to be a monster show. The next time I saw them was at the Pittsfield show, and they had changed that show so much it really ###### me off. It wasn't unrecognizeable or anything like that...its just that all the things I liked about the show, they took out or changed. I was very surprised to see them beat Cavaliers and Vanguard at Finals that year, I thought they deserved 5th. Honorable Mention: 1989 Star of Indiana. I liked what they had early season, but they changed a lot for Finals. Overall, it was better for their vision, I guess, but I think they could have snuck into the top five that year if they had kept what they had and just cleaned it. I mean, they were running tight with Devils and not far behind Phantom at some point that season...beat Devs, Cavies, and Cadets at a regional that year...

1992 saw 9 corps achieve a score of 90: 1 Cavaliers 97.500 2 Cadets of Bergen County 97.000 3 Star of Indiana 96.700 4 Blue Devils 95.400 5 Madison Scouts 93.700 6 Crossmen 92.200 7 Santa Clara Vanguard 91.800 8 Phantom Regiment 91.500 9 Blue Knights 90.000 The same 9 corps had 90s in Semis and Quarters as well.

After reading that older thread....anyone ever find the Friends, Geico, and Real Men of Genius parodies discussed in there?

I disagree.

I know *I'm* daaaaamn happy with the way the are performing. They really seem to be stepping it up sound-wise, percussion-wise, and movement-wise. Can't wait to see their product next year...I hope!

...anyone know where I can get the title/composer for their opener? Is it on iTunes or Amazon?

First, a disclaimer: I like the Bluecoats show this year. A lot. If you do a search for earlier posts of mine, you will see that about a month or so ago, I raved on this show and thought it one of the better offerings by Bluecoats in as long as I can remember. The Bluecoats commentary should be a clinic on what NOT to do with a drum corps show. I am a learned gentleman. I know what Michael Gray, the visual coordinator for the Bluecoats, is talking about when he talks about surrealism, and Rene Magritte, and clouds and purpose and random etc etc etc. I get it. But, I have to be honest, I enjoyed this show a HELL of a lot more when I didn't know the back story to it. I think it is contrived, wacky, out-there, and better-suited to a black and white student film than a in-your-face technicolor drum and bugle corps. It's pretentious and verbose garbage, and I wish they had focused more on just putting on a great show and spent less energy on all these things that 80% of the population that attends drum corps shows are not going to get. My wife watched the show with me, and liked it too. Then I played the commentary for her, and she summed it up with one word: Overdone. Please, Bluecoats...you are so close to being a constantly elite corps. Next year, leave the philosophical wanderings to a 12th grade lit class. Give us more of the great performances you are capable of. The problem with letting people (especially judges) know that there is all this extra stuff behind the show is that once they know, they can see that it is not being communicated clearly, and suddenly (and unfairly, I may add), it takes the show down several pegs for some. I know it did for me. I was happier not knowing what it was about. Maybe it's just me.

Where is this ignore button? I don't see it.

It's a great drill...fantastic design. But it is very, very, very dirty, isn't it? I was there live that night, and I don't remember it being very dirty...I just remember the awesomeness of the entire spectacle. I think that is a testament to how great that show was and the vibe they had that night...even though now I can look back and see how dirty it was, they "sold" the heck out of their show, and sure as heck fooled me into thinking they were cleaner than they were. (When those three blocks collapsed down into each other at the end of the opener, my buddies and I literally jumped out of our chairs with a "WHOA!")

Aren't they just precious when they're that age?

Pardon my french, but... Who the hell do you think you are? This is an open forum, and a discussion on intellectual property has arisen due to the original post. If you don't like it, then why don't YOU get the heck out of here? Plenty of other Blue Stars-tinged posts you can go have fun in. Or, you can let the door slam your butt on the way out and head back to the Blue Stars forum.