truman

Really confused by this. What type of market research does not involve polling?

How does the recent vote for added brass instruments make YOU feel? I love it, and it makes me want to see a DCI Drum Corps now more than ever (9 votes [8.82%]) I think I will like it, and that it may make me like the activity even more (15 votes [14.71%]) It really doesn't have any effect on me at all (36 votes [35.29%]) I think I won't like it, and that it may make me want to see DCI Drum Corps less than I do now (28 votes [27.45%]) It makes me want to not even see a DCI corps anymore, now more than ever (14 votes [13.73%]) I am not IN ANY WAY saying that the results above are what would happen if DCI polled their current customers. I am only using the poll results to help illustrate my point. First we eliminate the top and bottom folks. They are the extremes. It will be pretty hard to make them happy with anything if they are on the bottom, and would hard to p### off if they are on the top. The ones in the middle are bound to be the biggest single group, and we just want to keep them there, or possibly try to find something that might move them up a level. This may or may not move them up, but we have a fairly easy job keeping them from dropping if we don't do something really dumb. That takes our focus to the other two, who represent 42% of the poll. They are willing to try the change, but have pre-conceived notions about how it will make them feel. If I was considering a change, and was looking at that 42% group, I would want to see the number of those who think they will like it be at least 3-1 over those who don't. If it wasn't, I would need to carefully consider what the benefit was to my business to make the change. Long term growth? Immediate expense reduction? Do I have to take this risk? Is my current business on the incline or the decline? How confident am I that my change can sway that lower half once they try it. Risk/benefit stuff. Hope this makes sense in the context of what I posted above.

Funny how some who have defended the need for acceptance to change to prevent death are now against anything too drastic that might upset the competitive process that we have now. They must be those dinos that want to back to the tic system....lol

Could be considered marketing brilliance. If the home show fans thought that by buying tickets and attending the show, they could help their hometown corps, maybe a lot more would do so? Just a different take on it.

Polling your current customer base about changes and current policies is the basic, or "low level" of market research, no? DCI hardly needs to use an "agency" side to do that rather inexpensively. After all, making changes to your business or product are going to have the biggest impact on your current customers, so how it affects them has got to be a primary consideration, especially if you are experiencing recent success and growth. What would be the reason that DCI is polling the Finals webcast customers? To take it one step further, if DCI had polled their customers, the ones who are buying the products from them now, about this proposal, what do you think the results would have been? What do you think would have happened if they "tabled" the proposal, announcing that they wanted to poll last years Finals ticket and webcast buyers before making a decision?

I think the importance of engagement of the fans that they are referring to in this proposal, (in the original proposal, not shown in the recap pasted above), is more about in the activity as a whole rather than in the individual shows. For example, Crown winning last year has got to be better for the activity from a popularity standpoint then if BD had won.

Actually, Jeff what I said was ENTERTAINED not engaged. Either can be very hard to quantify. Personally, I welcome the benefits of both, and feel the diversity is great and makes the activity stronger. As far as your BD comment goes, maybe they will fair very well in Denver this year?

My experience is that there is more criticism needed in band, because there is more to criticize and the members are less self critical

Great stuff here... And for the record, I was kinda over the top with my post, but I really do agree with Jeff. I was merely pointing out that actions speak louder than words and protest is not easy. Walking away from something you love, or have loved, is hard to do. I also feel we should not be so quick to make threats we cannot keep. Many consumers do this because the threat gets as much attention as the act in a lot of places. The thing that intrigues me is the initial reaction thing. Not the well, I thought about it and it may not be as bad as I thought part. Surely DCI knew what the initial reaction would be, yet I see little in the way of managing or even attempting to control it. It actually seems like they welcomed it in some way. A type of rules congress flame bait if you will? Especially considering the seemingly limited value or benefit of the proposal.

In the back round of this proposal is the concept that the fan needs to feel that their input is important. That the system takes into account what the majority likes, or they will become disengaged and not feel valued. Anybody who went to shows last year can see how the majority of fans were not as "entertained" by the second place corps as they were the by the 4th place one. Easy...no applause meter needed. I applaud caution and analysis when making changes to how things are done. We simply cannot change things for the sake of evolution, there needs to be careful consideration to ALL aspects of a proposal, not just general gut feelings about what sounds good. The complexities of the system are sometimes not easy to see for everyone. I bet you know where I'm going with that?

I find this proposal as intriguing as the "other one". While the majority agree to passing new instrumentation that will give designers new freedoms to create wonderful fan friendly new moments, there was much disagreement on this one. The entertainment proposal called for more focus and reward to design that engages the audience. It felt that there needs to be a shift in design from what the judge thought was effective, to what the fan thought was effective. It certainly implies that the current scoring system does not do that. Basically, it asks for the current 40 points in GE to be split up 20 for what the judges think is effect, and 20 for how the fans react to the effect. I doubt had this passed, that 5,000 people would have signed a petition in 24 hours asking for it to be repealed. How can the message be that we overwhelmingly feel we need to add things and make changes to allow for new things that fans will love, but we aren't sure we want their judgement to determine our competitive success? One might start to wonder if some think they know better than fans about what is enjoyable and what is not.

Last call...just a few more to get to 100! PICK ONE PLEASE! Thanks!

I aged out 27...1982 Understand completely Tim, and appreciate your wait and see attitude. I am not convinced some french horn or sousa thing will drive me away, but I am concerned. I never really got too caught up in the B-Flat thing. Amps and synths are a completely different matter for me though, mostly because I think they are not up to performance standards that the activity can attain, create a dynamic change to the drum corps sound and I am growing tired of "putting up" with them while I try to enjoy other aspects of today's corps. I have given them a chance, and with few exceptions, it's been epic fail for me. I would venture a wager that anybody who is against this instrument change would trade it in a minute for the loss of goo and amplified voice. Wait and see is a tough attitude to have when you consider all that I think. The other thing that concerns me is the move to woodwinds, and how this change was described in the proposal as "the next logical addition" and not the last. I am having a tough time thinking I can wait and see or give it a chance when it comes to woodwinds, and I design for, and teach marching band. Sorry if you don't have the correct choice for you in the poll, there is a method to my survey technique there however, so I would ask you consider voting for the "next best" answer if you can. Thanks!

Good grief. Why. Can't you just go to an anti gay demonstration and show some videos of same sex marriages to get your kicks? Just because you call for someone to tolerate something they don't believe in doesn't give you the right to rub their nose in it. Maybe I'm missing something, but what is the intent of saying that?

Thanks! I totally get that. I also think that we all share the same fear of not liking whatever change comes next, especially for something that we dearly love. I suppose everyone deals with that fear differently. As I get older, I keep wishing change would slow down a bit, especially when I see some of the problems that so called "advancement" can cause. I do think we might also differ in how we will handle things if we ever find find out that we don't enjoy what is on the field enough to stop going. I will be really p##### if anybody ever screws it up that bad, and don't think I'll go away "quietly". I sincerely hope you can avoid having to ever face not enjoying drum corps in your lifetime, whatever it becomes.

Come on you lurkers, I see you! Please vote, I'm not giving up that easy! Even Family Feud gets more than 100 pollsters. Please don't make me knock on doors with a clip board...awe, never mind I won't do that anyway. PLEASE VOTE!

I was trying to not make this about trombones, but obviously that was not the intent of the OP, as he was trying to point out the insignificance of instrumentation for a reason. My question is therefore simple. Doesn't this statement include woodwinds, strings, pre-recorded music with just dancers, everything? Isn't that really what the difference of opinion is? Where to set the boundaries and why? I assume the OP is ok with all instruments being allowed? Guardling, as a major positive thinker in this discussion, how about you? I'm pretty sure you said you draw the line there, but I might be mistaken? If so, why do you draw the line at woodwinds and not trombones? No one can possibly think that only brass players can have this type of experience, and not woodwind and string musicians, right?

Probably not as much if you are OK with it passing

I think a lot has to do with last season, and how things ended with PR

Not subtle are you...I love it though!

I was referring to your post asking if the guy in the DCI pic was on DCP

That was a truly innovative drum corps show that connected. I loved it as well!

Yes, agree on much of this, especially the black and white thing. BUT...hehe...seems like I always have a but...if DCP represents some of the most passionate and vocal people in the activity as you stated, would it not be bad business for the brand to not see them as valuable, even if it is a small sampling of your most passionate fans. I am more than positive that public opinion polls often take opinions from only the right or left. I have some experience in survey and analysis. Many companies and brands consider passionate feedback, both on the positive and negative extremes, as more valuable than their "moderate" customers. It provides them with the feedback they need to attempt to turn as many moderates into loyal, engaged customers as they can, while hopefully limiting those on the other side. Thanks for your discussion, and btw, did you vote?

I see your point about that statement. Probably could have worded that better. I guess what also intrigues me is that I think a lot of drum corps fans come here for the "entertainment" value, read the threads, and don't make their feelings known, or even create a profile etc. I wonder how many came here for the first time in a long time because they knew that there would be something to see after this vote. It seems the drama threads always get a lot of hits here. This one is miles ahead of any in the last couple months. I see you are a dcp vet, and you have marched. Do you think your opinion of things, in even the smallest of ways, is representative of a part of the fan base?

Why they haven't been in 4 or 5 years is why DCI should want to listen to them? Maybe, just maybe...a vote for something as seemingly "simple" and logical as this could create another group of people who will say 5 years from now that they haven't been in 5 years? I do suppose some people might just be looking for an excuse or justification for not supporting the cause for other reasons, but I am sure there are some that have had genuine bad feelings from what, and how things have been done. I would also venture to say that there are many in favor of this, or who don't see the big deal, that haven't been to shows in the last 5 years as well. Should DCI not consider their feelings?