queenanne_1536

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queenanne_1536 last won the day on June 24 2018

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About queenanne_1536

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  • Your Favorite Corps
    Santa Clara Vanguard, Blue Devils, Carolina Crown
  • Your Favorite All Time Corps Performance (Any)
    2017 Santa Clara Vanguard
  • Your Favorite Drum Corps Season
    1998

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  1. Yeah, I think it was surprising that they won, for sure. But perhaps not because people didn't think they had the goods to win. I remember Madison being screwed by the judges was a common theme back in those days. Can't say I agree with those who thought they were getting screwed (except '88 DCM finals), but when you consider BD, SCV and Garfield, it seemed impossible that anyone other than those three would win back then. That's why it was so surprising, because it actually happened - someone was good enough to beat all three of them on the final night. The last time someone other than those three won was '75, so a long long time. Thrilling, indeed.
  2. I definitely thought that show was going to be a contender when I first saw it. I still don't agree with them falling to 5th on finals night in 2017.
  3. Flow between numbers and transitions wasn't as important back then as it was today. Concerto was a great piece, but I do agree it didn't fit thematically with Maleguena but few corps did thematic shows back then. It was in the period where themes were really starting to take off, but in '88 not every corps had a theme, and that was ok. On your last line - of course the random draw was stopped after that season. I don't think anyone was surprised that experiment failed. Madison did NOT win because of a random draw. They won because they were arguably the best corps on finals night. But, of course, on finals night you had 1 happy corps and 11 angry or indifferent corps. Personally, I think it worked and created the most fairness in judging because it forced the judges to do their own reads rather than herd-judging (relying on past scores and trends). I think herd-judging is the biggest problem in today's judging system. We should see scores bouncing up and down and corps flip-flopping night-to-night but we really don't because of herd-judging. It's subjective and every judges read should be different from other judges. But that's neither here or now.
  4. I misread. I thought you said you weren't there. Yes, adieu, indeed. No point in further continuation of this argument. Peace to you.
  5. I know the season well. Look, had BD or SCV won in '88, there would be no argument from me. If BD won in '08, well I wouldn't argue against that either. I those cases they were all close, so things could have gone any way, but they went the way they went. It was exciting to bear witness to those two nights. They were both magical and I was thankful to be there. Both were well deserved wins. Now if Madison had performed in finals in '88 like they had in semis and BD or SCV would have won, then I would argue against that BIG TIME, but Madison's finals performance was not quite as good as their semis performance.
  6. It is not irrelevant. You weren't there. You didn't bear witness to any of it. I was there the whole season in '88. I saw all the top corps several times. I bore witness to what happened throughout that season, including coming into to finals week. I never once, in '88, thought Madison was going to place lower than 4th at DCI finals, not even when they were 4th at DCM. I knew they were going to beat all their midwestern rivals. Cavaliers actually had my favorite show of '88. It was a stunning masterpiece. However, musically it lacked the intensity, energy and excitement of Madison's show, and during finals week it lacked Madison's finesse from a visual perspective. Regiment's show was a stunner visually, but as someone whose life revolves around classical music, I thought Tchaikovsky's Romeo & Juliet was a poor choice. Aside from the beautiful love theme, it's a rather dud of a piece, and their watering of the score as the season progressed seemed to negatively impact the effect more so than the watering of other corps. Star has a nice show, but it was easy to see from the beginning of the season it was designed to be successful in June and July and place 7th come finals. Did I think Madison was going to be top 2 coming into finals? I thought they had a chance to beat SCV after 8/13, but thought they were probably going to be 3rd or 4th. I knew SCV and BD were going to be up there, and one would be a fool to count Garfield out. But I will tell you, as I walked out of Arrowhead Stadium on Friday night of finals week, there was no doubt in my mind Madison won. They blew everyone away. Everyone! Their Semi's performance was nearly perfect. It's too bad that wasn't their finals performance. You can say I'm biased or what not, but it doesn't matter. I keep telling you why you are wrong and you are not getting it. Madison did not come in ranked 5th and win. That is just a fact. If you had said they were possibly 7th at this point or possibly 6th at one point, then there wouldn't be a disagreement, but that's not what you said. Unless you can find a score from '88 with a 5, 6 or 7 before Madison's name then they were definitively never ranked 5th, 6th or 7th. That's not how it works. Their one and only placement beneath 3rd all season was DCM Finals, where they placed 4th.
  7. They never beat Santa Clara, Blue Devils or Garfield before finals. Their only loss to Garfield was by 0.1 a few weeks before. They were 0.4 behind SCV coming into finals. SCV had only lost to BD. So, they were top 3 coming into finals, for sure.
  8. Well, you wasted your time.
  9. I love Madison, I won't lie, but I want Santa Clara to win almost every year. But, there are season's where a corps puts on such a magical show that I am happy that Santa Clara didn't win. '88 Madison was one of those years, as was 1990-1993 Star (even though they won only one of those years, I wanted them to win all four), as was 2000 Cadets, 2005 Cadets, 2008 Regiment and 2013 Crown. When magic strikes, like it did for Madison in '88 and Regiment in '96 and '08, and you realize you are watching something that rarely ever happens, and something so completely awesome, it's not hard to be happy about the outcome. Even though Santa Clara has my heart there are times when another corps puts something out there and that makes me want them to win. Crown '15 is another. Let me ask you this - were you even in the stands at finals in '88? Or are you basing your surprise off a video of the performances? Very different live. Madison completely nuked that stadium. I've never seen a fan base react like that. 2008 was close.
  10. But THAT is simply inaccurate. I think I've stated my case above. You are simply off in your comparisons because you are comparing scores for different shows. You cannot do that. Only head-to-head matters. The one and only night of '88 that the Scouts could have conceivably been 7th (or lower) was at DCM Finals when they placed 4th. Also, again, they were not 5th 6 days before finals. They were third at worst, unless you think SCV was 4th on that date, or you think two corps would have placed between SCV's 94.3 and Madison's 93.9. Yes, they surged. I'm not arguing they didn't. But it's not like they were in 7th (or 5th) coming into finals and won. They were essentially even with SCV (the 2nd place corps) coming in. That is an absolute fact! Surges have happened. In '87 Garfield stunned an undefeated SCV to win. I'm still not over that, even though '87 Garfield and '87 SCV are probably my two favorite shows of all time. In '92 Cadets were actually 6th coming into finals and finished 7th. In 1997, SCV started the season 10 points behind BD and tied them in Quarters. It happens. '88 isn't the only time it happened.
  11. queenanne_1536

    2019 Predictions!

    Yeah, much tougher these days. I miss the days were corps could really jump up or fall down many places season-to-season. I think BAC 2016-2017 is a rarity we will likely never see again.
  12. That's your problem there (not meant to be snarky so I hope you don't take it that way). You're trying to compare scores from different shows. If you take DeKalb out of the mix (or even if you keep it in the mix), the only two corps all season Madison was behind, by significant margins, were BD and SCV. Again, they weren't in 5th a week before DCI, they were in 3rd (by a very slim margin) or 2nd (since BD wasn't there). The only corps SCV lost to all season were BD (all the but the final night) and Madison (only the last two nights). There's no reason at all to assume that SCV wasn't 2nd on 8/13, and it would be impossible for Madison to be 5th on that night with a 0.4 spread between Madison and SCV. Another point. The only time, before finals week, Madison saw Garfield was that show on 8/3 where they lost by 0.1. Three nights later, Garfield beat Regiment (by 1.3) and Cavies (by 0.1), and were only 0.6 behind Star, so Madison could have also been 3rd on 8/6. It's also possible they could have been 6th. However, even if they were 6th on 8/6, they would have been less than a point out of 3rd. While you can't compare scores from different shows, margins can be a more accurate way of comparing two or more groups.
  13. Thanks for posting the scores. It was fun to relive. There are, however, some problems with your analysis. 7/30. You are incorrectly assuming Scouts were 6th as of that date. Regiment defeated Star of Indiana two weeks earlier by 1.0 at DCM DeKalb. On 7/30, Star won DCI Canada (over Garfield and Cavies), and Madison beat Regiment at Whitewater. While it is possible, if all the top corps were together on 7/30 that the Scouts could have placed 6th, It's also just as possible that the Scouts could have placed as high as 3rd. We'll never know, because they weren't all together and you cannot compare scores from different shows. 8/6. Your 8/6 assumption that the Scouts were ranked 7th is potentially false. Up until that point, SCV had only lost to BD. It's doubtful four other corps would fall in the 1.8 gap between SCV and BD. But, it's possible. 8/13. This is where I think your assessment is really wrong. 0.4 separated SCV and Madison. Again, SCV had only lost to BD up until that point. Madison was without a shred of a doubt in 3rd place at that moment. I had a couple friends who marched SCV in '88 and '89, and in '89 one of them told me Gail Royer, after their show on 8/13, told them Madison was for real and would contend for the championship in Kansas City (whether he said something to that effect or not, I cannot verify, obviously). That's just what I was told. That same friend also said he thought they (SCV) were going to finish 4th at finals, behind BD, Madison and Garfield, so he said he surprised they finished 2nd. I'm not, their show was fantastic. And BD was no where to be found for Madison and SCV after 7/30. Therefore, we have no way of knowing whether BD would have come into finals undefeated if they had faced SCV and Madison along the way. If I had to guess, I would guess they probably would have remained unbeaten until at least 8/13. It could, were they there, have all changed that night, or SCV may have beaten them earlier. But, we will never know. I think DCM was a complete #### show that year. I was there. There is no way in hell Madison should have placed 4th. Even Drum Corps World said they should have won DCM in their write up about the show. I dont't know if I agree with that, but they should have been right up there with Regiment and Star, if not ahead of Star, that night. If you take the DCM debacle out of the equation there was never a moment in '88 where the Scouts weren't a threat to finish in the top 3. Not once. There was a point where they weren't a threat to finish top 2, but 3rd was a possibility from the get go. But, what was shocking, for those of us that witnessed the transition over the past couple weeks of the season was how a corps fighting for 3rd or 4th place transitioned into a champion. It was unbelievable That's what I was talking about when I said "raging inferno." I didn't say they came back from Europe in that state. I said the last few weeks of the season. Or last couple, in fact. You could just feel, in watching them, that something remarkable was about to happen. Their finals performance in '88 still ranks as the greatest I have ever seen in terms of pure energy. I went to finals that year hoping SCV would win (as I did in 85, and 86, and 87, and 89 and every year thereafter). On finals night, I wasn't left with a single doubt Madison would win, and that's the way I wanted it in the end.
  14. queenanne_1536

    2019 Predictions!

    Hahaha. No, it's someone being realistic. They've hit hard times (well hard times for them). Look how long it took SCV to bounce back the last time they fell out of the top 3 (2004). It took 13 years to get back into the top 3. Cavies fell out after 2011 and still haven't gotten back in. Regiment fell out after 2012 and the downward trend continues. It's not easy, not by any stretch. It fact, it's way harder today that it was in the 80s, 90s, or 00s. They won't challenge SCV, Bloo, Crown, Boston or BD this year. That leaves only the Cavies. Their best shot is 6th. Will love it if I am wrong, but don't think so.
  15. queenanne_1536

    2019 Predictions!

    Brilliant.