danguernsey

When I joined the corps in October 1969 you had to qualify as a Tenderfoot Boy Scout before you could march. That meant you had all winter to memorize the Boy Scout oath and tie a few knots :P

That was Rick "Alphonso" Elvord, the younger brother of DCI hall of famer, Jim Elvord. "Fonz's" white aussie was slightly bent down in front like a panama hat, making him look like a combination of Shaft, Superfly, and Superman all rolled into one. His red horn-rimmed glasses also contributed to his a cool swagger that perfectly fit the Scout image then. Fonz wasn't as high energy as Joel, but he was equally cool and enthusiastic in a more laid back way.

The Madison Scouts played "May You Never Walk Alone" for the first time in their field show in 1954 and again in 1955 and 1958. So, how did "Never Walk Alone" become the Madison Scouts's theme song? According to Chuck Eikel, a Madison Explorer Scouts alum from 1951-1958, "In 1957, the Cavaliers and Scouts were dressing in a high school gym for a show in Kankakee, IL. It was the first day of a two-week tour to the VFW Nationals in Miami Beach. The Cavies started singing 'Somewhere Over the Rainbow,' which was a hit from their 1957 show. After they sang, we Scouts got together and sang 'Never Walk Alone' since most of us knew the words and harmony from previous years. Then both corps melded into one group and sang both songs again. That was the beginning of 'Never Walk' becoming a theme song. Also, it was the beginning of many friendships and bonding between the Scouts and the Cavaliers for many years." I thought I'd pass that story along if anyone is interested in drum corps history "waaaaaay back in the day."

I'm glad Pete mentioned the Anaheim Kingsmen. IMHO, Don Porter Jr. is underappreciated. He should be getting more accolades along with Sanford and DeLucia. SCV is tops for me with Kingsmen running a close second--Kingsmen should be on that list.

Ok, Uncle Z, If anyone cares, here is the full meaning behind "Phillip" and why we used him in '75 and '76. As noted, he was a play on the word "Philly," the site of DCI those years and the symbolic city of "brotherly love" (more myth than reality). As Jim F. pointed out, "Phillip was a 'lawn jockey' lawn ornament which usually held a lantern. People used to these in front of their houses in the 60s/early 70s. The jockeys got to be controversial because most had black faces. After that most had their faces painted over or just disappeared." It was in the context of the bicentennial and lingering spirit of the 60s civil rights movement that he symbolized Scout unity among the races--hence, his face was repainted one 1/2 black, the other 1/2 white. On the lighthearted side, "Phillip" also signified "fill up the party 'punch' bowl," which we indeed did after our 1975 victory.

Hey Nancy, Each corps found the right way to dot it. Obviously, 2-7 did Luckily, in Scouts we didn't get bogged down in bureaucratic inefficency. Section leaders knew there place in the overall scheme--we had few problems with competing egos.

Yeah, I think it was rather common place. Scouts, for instance, had one overall drum leader (the senior snare vet) and then a sub-leader in the other sections (tenors, bass, tymps, cymbals). . . . It was similar to the military with generals, captains, Lts., sargents, etc. I aged out too soon to become a general, lol.

Fred Sanford was program director in 1976 and came up with the "disco show." Jim Elvord also had a hand in it. Greg Dalton. He was the tenor section leader. Unlike '75 when all four of us played the intro to "McArthur Park," in '76 one guy played it. In '76, we had split the tenors (2 on each side of the snares), making it difficult for us to play it cleanly with that much distance between us. Hence, one guy had the honor. He was the Scouts's mascot in 1975-76. His name was a play on "Philly" and the split black and white face signified Scout unity and concord among the races.

Hey Rich, I like your modesty, but don't think you would have been biased if you included "Channel One" on your list. Most pundits agree that it is one of the bench mark solos of the 1970s. Its well deserved. I'm probably biased including '78 Scouts "Star Wars" solo. Envy prompted me to include it. I was really bummed that I wasn't able to march in that '78 line (I aged out in '77). The Scouts's best drum line of the 70s was 1978--it had a legitimate shot at the drum trophy that year. Thanks for the compliment on '77 Scouts. I assume you are refering to "America" solo? (second half of "West Side Story"). Personally I liked the drum chart to "Prologue," leading into "Cool" better (beginning of "West Side"). It wasn't a drum solo per se, but had some nice licks throughout. That piece and '75 "McArthur Park" were among my favorite tenor charts to play. Dan

1965 Chicago Royal Airs "Coffin" 1966-1967 Chicago Cavaliers (32nd paradiddles in the '67 solo are friggin cool!) 1969-1970 Blessed Sacrement Golden Knights 1969-1970 Boston Crusaders "Unsquare Dance" 1971 Blue Rock 1972 Anaheim Kingsmen "George of the Jungle" 1972 Chicago Cavaliers (first solo after "Carmen"). One of the last power solos in the "old school" tradition. 1973-1974 SCV "Young Person's Guide" solo 1975 SCV "Birds of Fire" (first solo--I think that is the name of it) 1976-1977 Blue Devils "Channel One Suite" solo 1978 Madison Scouts "Star Wars" solo 1978-1979 SCV "Lezghinka" 1980 SCV "Stoneground Seven" (a tenor drummer's paradise)

Bill, Eric, Scott, Eric, and Dave. They all marched in 1975. The Beckman's were indeed a drum corps family.

Appreciate your calling him out, though worth pointing out that Madison DID lose to Santa Clara at Whitewater prelims. So it was possible for someone to tag the Scouts - but the Vanguard was the only corps who did. Thanks Dan G for a thoughtful post. Agree that by 75 there was a shift in performance ideal away from trad east coast style and toward a 'cooler' style of performance ala BD and SCV. Always felt Madison's victory in 75 was something of an anomaly; they totally deserved the win, but in some ways it was a last hurrah for the 'pop' show concept before the west coast style took over completely for a number of years. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yeah, the last "power corps" in old school tradition were Madison, Muchachos, and the Kingsmen (mid 1970s). Cavaliers "Russian Christmas Music" fits into that mold also. The opening to Muchachos's "Pictures of Spain" is friggin cool! I have a cassette recording of them at 1974 CYO, which I listen to often. I don't mean to diss Hawthorne, but if someone misrepresents my corps I'll be #### sure to set it straight.

I concur with fellow '75 member, Mistertoo. Having marched in 1975 when our membership was about 80% local (immediate Madison area) coupled with the enforced birth certificates, I maintain that we did not have overage members, nor did we have holes at '75 finals. In viewing the '75 DVD, I didn't see any holes in the Slaughter front, nor in the wedge during Rhapsody in Blue. The stability of our local membership was the basis of the Scout successes of the early to mid-1970s. We didn't have to rely slavishly on outside membership to be competitive, nor to sustain ourselves: an improved instructional staff made a bunch of local guys competitive. Dragging the Scouts, Bill Howard, and other corps (Cavaliers) through this debased mudd doesn't reflect well on you, nor the Muchachos. Call me naive, but I think most corps in the top 12 took the high road, attempting to police the problem. Scout management took the matter seriously because we were contending for the title and weren't going to blow it on a stupid overage violation. It appears that your corps chose not to police the situation as thoroughly as it could have. In all, your management did you guys in, not the DCI directors. In reading previous posts on the '75 DQ and the Muchachos essay in the History of Drum Corps, I get the sense that Hawthorne's zeal to field a national championship corps in 1975 was an act of desparation, a last chance, before the competive winds shifted westward once and for all. I sympathize (and agree) that the formation of DCI initially hurt the eastern corps ($$ problems with touring). The decline of the great eastern corps of the 1960s--particularly Blessed Sac and BAC--and low placements in the early 1970s, especially in 1973, seemed to exacerbate the feeling of dislocation and unease that eastern corps would inevitably be left in the dust. By 1975, Hawthorne's "tolerance" of overage members suggests an ends-justifies the means mindset. Whatever it takes to win, even if it means being lax with the overage rule. It sounds like a Darwinian approach to drum corps--survival of the fittest, an animalistic self-preservation in the face of a dying activity in New Jersey. Reinforced by the DQ, this attitude multiplied into Hawthorne's heroic victim status. It's a martyr complex rooted in false emotion--vulnerable egos are the very root of heroic myths. Such myths are the product of fearful minds who need to transform the pains and uncertainties of life into a stable, meaningful whole. PS: In the fall of 1975, we heard from Don Angelica that the Muchachos were 3rd in prelims--about 1.45 down from us. However, as Paul Milano recently revealed, Hawthorne's sheets were never tabulated. And, it seems unlikely that we'll be able to recover, or verify, Angelica's "roundabout" knowledge of the Muchachos's placement.

The #4 pic is the 1960 Madison Scouts. C.H. Beebe is seated in the front row, far left (behind the bass drum). One of my early drum instructors stands in the front row, second from the right.

I know him. He taught Guardsmen when I was there. I marched with Ray in the Scouts in 1974 and 1975. Dan

Scott, you are dead right about SCV's "Stone Ground Seven," but wrong that BD (Float) was "responsible for the first "snare book" parts for tenors." Again, it all goes back to Sanford in the early-mid 70s. I played one of his tenor books with Scouts in '76 and "snare book parts for tenors" were indeed there. Sanford's tenor books from 1978-80 didn't grow out of a vacum, but grew logically out of what he was writing in the early-mid 70s. Dan Guernsey Madison Scouts, 1970-77 DCI Multi-Tenor Individual Champion, 1976-77

That is not true. Fred Sanford changed the face of tenor drumming back in the early-mid 70s, culminating in '78-79 and 1980's "Stone Ground Seven." Late 70s/early 80s was the high point. Float and Hardimon took their respective cues from Sanford, especially Hardimon; Float was still pretty snare-centric and didn't write, IMO, the most techically demanding tenor parts. And, tenor books in the 70s were not "comparatively easy," but, in fact, more techincally difficult than much of what is going on today. Sanford wrote for us (Scouts) in '76 and even that tenor book was more technically demanding than most of the stuff I hear today. SCV's '99 tenor book, for instance, was the most diluted tenor book I had ever heard among an elite DCI corps--I don't recall hearing a single rudiment in that tenor book, nothing beyond 16th notes. Dan Guernsey Madison Scouts DCI Multi-Tenor Individual Champion, 1976-77

Dan: Tom was with Freelancers in 75. As to your reply to my note. I have so little time to flesh out what I'm thinking lately, but you interpreted what I meant perfectly (playing Stone Ground Seven, etc.). It would be good to hear a line that had someone writing like that again. I wish I had an outlet up here, or I'd be doing it myself. On to this thread. My first instructor was Norm Campbell, father of Steven and assorted other Campbell brothers. He taught everyone together, by himself, on boards in the winter. It was breakdown one rudiment after another, plus some scottish stuff. But the best thing he did was take the corps to Marion, Butler, and Toledo to see the open class corps. He figured we would soak up what lines like Anahiem, SCV, and Bridgemen were doing and it would transfer to our work ethic. It did. Tom Float was a real eye opener. There isn't anyone better on the planet to learn how to get clean from. Even though he was gone to Atlanta in 78, we carried on with what we learned from him. It wasn't just about doing it over and over again. He had a way of findig the little things that made a difference. Everything he did with us was too logical, from seeing the one guy who was lifting a bit too high, or one note in the basses that was causing a tick in the next bar. He was also the first drum instructor I had that paid as much attention to what the horns were doing, especially when what they did had a bearing on how we listened to each other. I never heard a guy rag on the horns for things like dragging, or hanging over on a release, or not counting rests properly like he did. I could go on and on about the things Tom did that were new to learn, yet made such perfect sense, but that could turn into a book. Sam Kayes, who marched Anahiem with Tom, Ralph, and Al Murray (who by the way was in Toronto in 75 and 76), wrote some of the most interesting stuff I've played. Check out Oaklands from 78 and Optimists from 75 through 77. I never had Fred Sanford as an instructor, but I learned one #### of a lot about arranging from listening carefully to the stuff he wrote. Regards, John Swartz John, "Tom was with Freelancers in 75." Thanks for the clarification and sharing your experiences with Tom F. He sure was meticulous. "I have so little time to flesh out what I'm thinking lately, but you interpreted what I meant perfectly (playing Stone Ground Seven, etc.). It would be good to hear a line that had someone writing like that again." Yes, my statement about recovering in principle what lines did back then was directed to those folks who might think I'm too retro: I should have signed posted my shift in audience from you to them more clearly. I did the same thing in a reply to Mike Davis when I urged him to listen to '66 Cavies (which he obviously knows having marched then). It was directed to the younger guys so that they can get a sense of where drumming was at in the past to understand fully where it is today. I've gotta watch those shifts :-). "I never had Fred Sanford as an instructor, but I learned one #### of a lot about arranging from listening carefully to the stuff he wrote." I was so excited to hear that he was coming to us in 1976. Before he arrived, I was already steeped in his approach to tenors and was looking forward to honing those skills further, which I did. The sad thing about 1976 is that Fred was not only drum arranger/instructor, but also program coordinator. He had a strong hand in selecting the music for "Madison Scouts Part I" in '76, which ended up in disaster. Fred was demoted and we scrapped Fred's entire program after our California tour in early July. We pulled out of all of our shows in early-mid July and went into a 2-week marathon camp to learn and clean an entire new show, mostly based on the "glories" of 1975-"Madison Scouts Part II." Fred's music selection in "Scouts-Part I" wasn't right for us, but those drum charts were a blast to play (we were consistently getting 4.8s in drum build up in early-mid June! For the younger guys, that was out of 5 pts.). Even today, I'll pull out some sticks and go through those charts--I still have much of that show memorized (as well as 1975). It was a new venture for Fred, but I think he was in over his head as program coordinator; he should have stuck to what he did best: write and instruct drum lines. Some fellow Scout buddies and I use to joke that Gail Royer had sent Fred out to us in '76 on a secret sabotage mission as pay back for winning DCI in 1975 :-). In any event, we redeemed ourselves pretty well taking 2nd at DCI finals, despite the noted horn phasing problems in "MacArthur's Park." We were pushed to the limit, unfortunately. We also won drum execution that night thanks to Fred. So, all wasn't lost for us, nor him :-). all the best, Dan Guernsey Madison Scouts, 1970-77

Oh! Jeff, I forgot to ask in my previous post. Did you know Dwayne Lewis and Steffanie Niehoff? If I recall, they worked with Spirit's drum line in 79/80 under Float. Dwayne marched under Float with Oakland in 75' and 76' and Steffanie I knew going back to the early 70s when she marched with the all-girl corps in Madison, the Capitalaires. I ask because they were good friends of mine when they lived in Madison in the mid-late 80s. I've been out of touch with them for awhile. Thanks. Dan Guernsey Madison Scouts, 1970-77

Hey Jeff, Boy, he sure did and you guys smoked also! Dan Guernsey Madison Scouts, 1970-77

Fred Sanford developed the "west coast style" in 1970-71 with SCV, particularly the interpretation of double-stroke rolls and drags. It spread quickly among west coast corps from 1972-75, including the Kingsmen, the corps that Float and Hardimon marched in. Float took it with him to Oakland Crusaders in 1975 and, as you know, Spirit in the late 70s/early 80s. Sanford brought it to us (Scouts) in 1976 when he wrote and instructed us that year. Dan Guernsey Madison Scouts, 1970-77 Oh! By the way, did you ever see Scott Pearson (Scouts) perform in tenor individuals in 1980-83?

Ray Baumgardt/James Elvord-Madison Scouts Sandra Opie-Argonne Rebels In the early 70s, both changed forever what horn lines sounded like, especially Madison in the early-mid 70s. Madison influenced Jim Ott and Wayne Downey with Blue Devils in the mid-70s. Nuff said.

Hi Pete, I concur with Mike: great topic! For me, there were 3 guys who I regarded as mentors, or role models, in my rudimental development. The first is an "unsung hero" by the name of Mark Riley, a fantastic snare drummer with the Madison Scouts from 1967 to 1971. Mark taught the Madison Jr. Scouts in 1970 when I was a young aspiring drummer, giving me my first lessons in the art of rudimental drumming. As a product of the 60s and Larry McCormick (indirectly Frank Arsenault), Mark was steeped in the old Cavalier mode of drumming, playing many of their classic solos for us impressionable kids in Jr. Scouts, esp. the famous Cavalier solo from 1966. I had never seen drumming ability like that: I was immediately hooked. Mark's superior abilities told me that I was wasting my time in 7th-grade band. Drum corps drummers at that time (c. 1970) were light years ahead of the public school system. A band teacher with an one-semester course in drumming was not percussively interesting, nor was he going to teach me anything about superior technique, so I quite and never looked back (remember, marching bands copied drum corps at that time). Then there was Mike Madigan. Again, another "unsung hero" and former snare drummer with the Scouts from the mid-60s to 1970. More than anything, Mike helped develop my sightreading ability as well as refine my rudimental technique in the early 70s. Last, but not least, was the famous Fred Sanford, who instructed us in 1976. Before he came to Scouts, I was already steeped in Fred's multi-tenor philosophy; that is, extending the rudimental difficulty and technical demand of snare parts to tri-drums. His SCV tenor charts from the early-mid-70s clearly anticipated those great tenor charts from 1978-80 (Scott posted the tenor chart from SCV's '78-79 closer the other day--great piece!). Those charts didn't suddenly come out of thin air; they were the culmination of Fred's tenor philosophy going back to the early 70s. Just listen to the recordings: its all there in embryonic form. So, it was the "old school" rudimental style steeming indirectly from Larry McCormick/Frank Arsenault via Mark Riley and the "new" tenor philosophy of Fred Sanford that I synthesized in my championship tenor solos of 1976 and 1977. I salute those guys!!! I thank them for the education and journey. Dan Guernsey Madison Scouts, 1970-77 DCI multi-tenor individual champion, 1976, 1977