bldbrkr

OK, enough with the figure skating references. Being a skating coach who was in corps (Crossmen) I can tell you there is a world of difference in judging systems and training (of athletes and judges). Our new judging system is more complex than ever and the amount of time an athlete spends in training is much more than anyone does in corps. Having said that, I wish corps could be in an Olympic style or true world style competition. It would require some of the things people have listed on here..LOL I can see a compulsory program...same music for everyone and same drill. Synchro skating does come close to what a corps does on the field. In our sport, music is secondary to the demonstration of skills so the similarities are more from a drill perspective. Ok..just had to add my two cents.... John

Some things to clarify... There are critiques held in figure skating. Figure skating judges train for a very, very long time compared to a DCI judge. The process is much more involved with testing and trialing over many years. We don't say a judge is "explaining themselves to the fan" It's referred to as educating the public on our judging system. The new judging system (IJS) is quite complex. Corps used to compete against a book of criteria. As that evolved, so did the judging. I don't know of any olympic sport that you could compare the style of DCI/DCA/marching band judging to. Most ports usually have an element comparison or time trials. John Your friendly skating coach and Crossmen Alumni.

I was thinking this was worst season as in terms of rained out shows, missed shows, bad stadiums etc. I assumed it was more from a member/corps point of view. Example: 1981 was unfortunate due to not having true finals videos. john

If it's only Canadians and Americans wouldn't it be "North American Championships"? Worlds usually implies European and or Asian participation as well. Just my toughts... John

What ?? No other comments? C'mon guys.. discuss... talk... B) J

Wow, What a great thread! It's really encouraging to see that you people know your skaters...Ice Dancing even!! I think that when it comes to DCI and ISU you will find many similar things. We rant over the old times when figures where required. We talk about how the artistry was better and it was more about the whole package and less about the number of rotations in a jump. Yes, we even complain about the judging system. The new one is a killer for skaters and coaches. One difference I've noticed, we have a large amount of respect for each other, the judges, our tradition. This respect/level of professionalism seems to have diminished as DCI has gotten older. Maybe respect isn't the right word.. I'm fumbling here..... Skating does have a different heirarchy than corps. There are more people involved in skating, the dollars are much bigger etc etc. But all things have their plusses and minuses. Heck even US Nationals got dumped to ESPN for nationals this year. The networks aren't carrying it to the best of my knowledge. Thanks for the good reading! John Crossmen '80 and '81 Professional Skaters Association Sr rated coach former US Figure Skating elite athlete

You have a good point here. Synchro skating has not taken off in popularity like the other disciplines of skating has. It's hard to identify with 7 or more people on the ice doing the same thing and looking the same. I always compared Synchro to the indoor team dance competiitions. While both have international venues, their exposure on TV is limited to ESPN John

One other thing that should be mentioned. Skating used to be and can still be considered and elitist sport. It costs much more than a few thousand dollars a year to train little Susie or Joey to learn to skate competitively. The time investment and the monetary investment as well as the possible monetary gains as a coach, competitor or show skater are much greater than that of DCI corps. USFSA, the United States Figure Skating Association is much older than DCI. The structure is quite different as well. The most notable difference is the judging system and the fact that skating involves year round competition. This is kind of fun.. combines my love of skating with my love of drumcorps. John

Well, as a former competitive skater, Crossmen alum and Senior rated skating coach, I have some things to say about that. First off, jumps have an inherent timing. This timing is unique to each individual. Skaters train to perfect the entrance, execution and exit of jumps and spins. It's not easy to say a flip or lutz jump has a 4/4 or 3/4 timing. Nine times out of ten, when a skater tries to land a jump exactly on the impact point, it messes with their persosnal timing. We encourage them to interpret the music in amny way. Foot work and upper body choreography enhance the visual musicality BUT, you don't get "extra points" for landing a jump exactly on the down beat of an impact point. The emphasis is on the quality of the take off, the air postiion and the landing. Drum corps is very different. Having been in both, I can say that my training in physical training in drumcorps in no way compared to my training for skating. Very rarely did I reach an anaerobic threshold with corps. With skating it was a daily occurence. The amount of time spent training in skating is year round, 5 to 6 days a week. This includes off ice conditioning, ballet/jazz/plyometrics as well as yoga, pilates and Tai Chi. 3 to 4 hours on ice work daily. The judging is figure skating is quite different from that in DCI. The judges in skating go thru much more rigorous training AND they are not paid below the national level. They trial for a very long time at each level and even then their promotion is not guaranteed. Phew, I have lots to say on this subject. BTW, I have met other skaters who were in corps. Nothing like seeing someone skate to Folk Song Suite :-) John Crossmen '80 and '81

:) I somehow missed this thread. WOW.. the memories. One thing.... Jack Miraculous???? Speaking as a mellophone player, that was not our favorite song to play. I did like '80 better than '81 though. Tony ( drill writer) was taller than Vinnie. When vinnie yelled at me he was right in my face :-) Ahh Malibu.. those were the days. John X-men '80-81

I didn't feel that ESPN2 was the best place to show case DCI. PBS made sense as would any other network that specializes in the arts and/or education. Does DCI or anyone really feel that using ESPN2 hits the target audience? I could be wrong but it seems that if this is to be "promotional" it needs to be directed at the correct audience. As for the broadcast itself, it's what I expected. I wish it could have been the full show, but I understood in advance that wasn't the intent. Did I like it, no. I did recommend it to the kids in our band. Most couldn't stay up that late. No one had any very positive comments about it like "Gee, I want to march in drumcorps". I'll have to show them a full finals video to cleanse their palates. John K. Crossmen '80 & '81 Various other musical organizations