Cavaliers Technique Question

[Pit Mac]

I think the Cavalier style is more natural, as to me it seems just like exaggerated walking. The big difference between Cavalier style and other styles, and what causes people to call what we do "bicycling", is the fact that, in addition to rolling through all the way to our toes on each step, we also roll-up completely from the heel to the toe.

edit: Apologies to any visual staff if what I've said mis-represents our style in any way.

That's pretty much exactly how the style was explained to me by the Cavaliers' Visual Staff.

It's a great technique...assuming you take the time to learn it. The technique is hard to learn in my opinion, because it basically makes you use completely different sets of muscles. In response to the person who started this thread, the best way to learn the technique is to be shown by example (at least for me), because of the multiple motions that are going on (snapping out the first step, rolling the heels, bending the knees, etc etc...). Also, if you're a drummer, the one thing that hasn't been mentioned yet, is the Crab step, it's a little different as well. When you step across, the WHOLE foot lands flat on the ground, not just the toes as with the straight leg technique. That was hard to learn, simply because you have to maintain even steps, keep the tempo going, and not bounce up and down with every other step.

I don't think anyone has mentioned this yet, but one of the common misconceptions of the technique is what a friend of mine calls the "duck walk" where the toes supposedly stay angled out the entire time. The feet are only angled when standing, while in motion, the toe points straight ahead.

As for the rest, I can't really explain it, I could show you if you were standing right here, but like I said the technique is best taught visually.

The overall operative word of the technique is NATURAL, it should feel very natural when you are marching. Don't mistake natural for easy though, it's pretty hard at first. I would also venture a guess that that is the reason the Cavaliers do breakdowns of the technique from November until Finals morning.

[mynameisohyeah]

This topic is silly. The Cavaliers don't tell their incoming member to just spread their wings and feel the natural universal marching technique hidden within the depths of their soul. Of course the Cavaliers staff spends a huge amount of time teaching the members how to march, and the members themselves could teach it if they really felt like it. It's just the best way to learn a marching technique is to be taught by example live and in person. I read in this topic the FMM's explanation of the technique (which is very similar to what I used to march in band) and I was scratching my head as to what he meant at some points. If people could learn how to march by reading DCP, high school bands wouldn't suck so much.

[Hysteria]

If people could learn how to march by reading DCP, high school bands wouldn't suck so much.

Doubt it...

[Pit Mac]

When you take a semester class in say...Calculus of Variations and attend lectures, the professor assigns homework. He is asking you to demonstrate your knowlege of the material he has presented so far. In order for you to complete the assignment 100% successfully you must be able to fully explain the answers that you generate in response to the questions. After several weeks of lecture the professor will administer a mid-term. He is then asking you to demonstrate thorough knowlege of the cumulative material covered up to that point. Again, for you to get a 100% on the exam you will have to show all of your work and fully explain how you arrived at the solution. At the completion of the course the professor will give you a Final...you know the rest.

So, my question to you is: How can having knowlege be mutually exculsive from the ability to transfer the knowlege?

If you truly have "knowlege" then there is thorough comprehension of all concepts related to what you understand and you should easily be able to communicate (i.e. teach) that information to others.

Unless... you are saying that the word "knowlege" to you means "being familiar with" the concept. Familiarization is not knowlege. I'm familiar with how to fly an airplane, but don't ask me to teach you with those tidbits and expect to hop in the cockpit and fly away.

I would hate to see someone 'familiar' with the Cavaliers marching technique as a visual tech on their staff, right?

Hm...that's an awkward example, could you send me a PM and explain the concept of what you are saying? Because it seems like you are trying to say that teaching and applying are exactly the same thing, which is not the case. An example would be typing, I know how to type, and I know how to apply that knowledge to make gramatically correct posts (Which you get ^OO^ for). But there's no way I could teach someone how to type, short of saying, "I just do it."

I'm not trying to say you are inferior to me simply because I don't agree, I just want to understand what you are saying. So if you could send me a PM that would be fantastic. That way I could get a more direct understanding of what you are saying. :)

Oh, and just a general point to everyone, people seem to be overlooking the fact that there are many different ways to teach, just because someone can't teach through lecture, and has to use visual examples (like me for instance). Doesn't necessarily mean they have no clue what they are talking about.

[cire]

But there's no way I could teach someone how to type, short of saying

you will be surprised..

think about what you do when you type. do you look at the keyboard? or is the keyboard layout memorized? where do you put your hands and fingers before you start typing? what do you know about shift, caps, enter, space, tab, etc.. all those things you can teach. it might all be second nature and automatic to you.. but if you actually think about it, you will realize you know more about it than you think

[mynameisohyeah]

Doubt it...

You're right. My bad.

[Pit Mac]

you will be surprised..

think about what you do when you type. do you look at the keyboard? or is the keyboard layout memorized? where do you put your hands and fingers before you start typing? what do you know about shift, caps, enter, space, tab, etc.. all those things you can teach. it might all be second nature and automatic to you.. but if you actually think about it, you will realize you know more about it than you think

It's easy to teach the scattered mechanics of typing. For example, it's easy to say that the Shift key makes capital letters, and makes you look a little more intelligent. But actually teaching someone how to use the keyboard (i.e.-Letters...), other than to say "just hit the keys." That may seem like enough, but unfortunately that's nowhere near enough for some people to get the basic concept of using passable English.

Besides, I don't want to teach people how to type. It's a basic law of nature that if you don't WANT to do something, you probably won't be as good at it as someone who has a passionate drive to do whatever that thing is. Do you see what I'm saying? Perhaps a good way to put it would be to revamp a popular phrase: Those who can, teach; those who can't, don't.

[cavaseal]

Karl, do you have more insight into the first step? I'm confused on why the weight isn't equal between both feet on step one. This wasn't the picture I was looking for, but last year or the year before they had a camp video of the corps taking step one and none of the weight shifted. It stayed completely over the planted right leg.

Thanks

Sweet photo.

Moving forward...

...when the heel of the trailing foot is at its highest point...the leading foot should be...mostly flat with the toes still up a little...flat.

...when the toes of the leading foot are at their highest point...the trailing foot should be...mostly flat with the heel slightly off the ground...flat.

When the trailing heel is already up on count 1, it diminishes the toe lift on the leading foot and it allows the trailing heel less range of motion to balance the weight transfer as the leading foot rolls flat.

And it's not a bicycle step.

Bicycle steps involve lifting your foot unnecessarily high off the ground just to place it back down on the ground with the heel in and the toes up. The path of the foot (and heel specifically) for the group in question is more like the curved runner of a rocking chair...a very shallow arc with the heel passing through low to the ground.

And to the person who posted earlier in this thread that their friend marched Cavaliers in the early '90s when they adopted the dot system..that was more like 1984 or 1985.

Just another band geek's opinion.

[ScribeToo]

"Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach. Nothing in there about those who "do" being required or expected to teach as well."

Stef

<**> Hey Stef, I resemble that remark!!!! Just kidding (sort of), as a teacher I hear that a lot and I assure you I can do everything I am teaching to 8th graders.

When you teach the skill you need the ability to break down each task into its component parts and begin where the learner is ready to start. You then build on that understanding with both the knowledge of the next step and practice on the previously taught part eventually building the entire skill set.

Believe me not everyone can do that and it is most often hardest for the people most proficient in the skill. I don't know if they simply assimilated the information too quickly or if the problem is in the task analysis end of it, but my point is that "Those that can do exceptionally well often can't teach exceptionally well."

You are right Stef, the staff who are teaching it now would be the ones to ask.

Oh Kathy.. I adore you.. and miss you.. will you be at Indy?

To your point, I agree.. I should have extended my original comments to include my belief that in order to teach, one must be able to do.. (obviously) but you did me the great favor of clarifying my original point which is that those that can "do" exceptionally well can not necessarily "teach" exceptionally well.. some do.. but it is certainly not a foregone conclusion as some may wish to lead others to believe.

Man, it's late. I'm going to bed now. PM me tomorrow!!

Stef

[The Line]

I was surprised to see that this thread exploded in posts today. I left and it was around 17 replies, and now we're around 130 replies. I was just CERTAIN before I began reading all the new replies that it had just reduced into a 'cavalier/bent leg' technique Vs. "Blue Devils/straight leg' technique shouting match.

SO, Kudos to everyone for keeping the discussion more intelligent and above that nonsense! :)

And with that said.....I think we're past due for.....

STRAIGHT LEG TECHNIQUE IS FAR SUPERIOR TO CAVALIER TECHNIQUE!!!1 YAR! ALL OTHER TECHNIQUES ARE TEH SUX! ...........................and GO.