DCI vs. BOA... (A rationale perspective?)

[harris120702]

It seems there have been quite a few threads regarding the similarities/differences between Drum Corps and marching band, specifically Bands of America. I read and scratch my head, wondering if I have missed something. Can someone help me figure this out? (I am using the term "People" to describe those who say these sorts of things, but as a general descriptor for all...)

People use the term Bandos to describe band kids, and DCI kids to describe Corps kids.

Aren't they the SAME kids? I don't know about years ago, but NOW, the kids are the same. The kids in Cadets, BD, Cavies, ARE the kids from Ayala, Carmel, Reagan, Westfield, North Penn, South Penn, Pig Penn, and wherever. Corps kids are marching in bands in the fall folks, I hate to break it to you. So are they Bandos in the fall, and DCI kids in the summer. Some may not even march competitively, but it stands to reason that a very high percentage of these "Corps" kids also march in school bands in the fall. Take away the Bandos from the Corps kids, and you'll have a very small contingent of dedicated "I only march Corps and Marching band is stupid" students.

People say Corps work harder than BOA bands.

OF COURSE THEY DO! Let's be honest, Corps wouldn't work half as hard as they do if they didn't have such selective membership and dedicated time. Pioneer doesn't have to worry about Johnny One-note and his multiple doctors appointments and over-bearing mother. The DO work harder, and that isn't even debatable. But it shouldn't be debated, because the circumstances of each are completely different.

People say Marching Band sucks, and Corps rules.

Richard Saucedo has a day job, folks. Find me a kick-butt Corps Instructor/Writer/Designer, and I'll find you a handful of High School marching band programs they instruct/write/design for. Bands play Corps music, Corps play band music, and each season of activity breeds change in the next seasons activity, for the other Circuit. BOA is where they are today because of DCI influence, and, get ready for this, Vice Versa.

Now, I just happen to be a band director who teaches Bandos and who also thinks Corps is fantastic, but it seems to me that we are attempting to split hairs where none exist. Are they different? YES Are they similar? YES Are the same folks involved on the design side and performance side? YES Do we oftentimes forget that these corps exist for the students in them more than for us? YES

Drum Corps is a fantastic outlet for students to continue their musical growth at an extremely high level. We are blessed that these performances are so great, and that we have avenues to view them. But they are not FOR us. They are for the students in the corps. DCI will die when students stop joining.

Are amps the end of corps? The kids will decide.

Is narration the end of corps? The kids will decide.

Are grounded Timps the end of corps? The kids will decide.

Are Bb horns the end of corps? The kids will decide.

Is George H. the end of corps? The kids will decide.

Shouldn't it be our job to support our young people, in DCI, BOA, or Friday night high-stepping? Let's allow them the chance to have the great "Marching Music" experience we had, and not get ourselves into a Tizzy over things that the students themselves have answered for us.

The Cadets are great this year; The kids decided.

Timps have been grounded for years; The kids decided.

Bb is here to stay; The kids decided.

George gets run through the ringer, yet puts out a top 5 product, year after year after year; The kids decided.

Let's take their lead, and enjoy the fantastic performances this summer. What the heck, let's enjoy the performances this fall too!

[dccorpsfan]

And if you're in a small time band...you dream about going to both BOA and DCI finals.

[supersop]

Old schoolers will say ....... yes they are similar .. and that's the problem.

Old schoolers will say ....... drum corps used to teach kids to play when their school system wouldn't/couldn't.

Old schoolers will say ....... I can't hum their tunes .... and I can't hum their tunes either.

Old schoolers will say ....... they play the same instruments so they are the same regardless of membership.

Old schoolers will say ....... you forgot to add all the universities that contribute to membership.

New schoolers will say..... why are you posting this .... it's all old news to us.

NEW and OLD schoolers will both say ..... I'm glad a band director feels the way you do about the experience and opportunity drum corps provides his students to further their music education .... and doesn't look down upon it as a way to ruin your chops and body for life.

Who decides is not the true issue. The true issue is who accepts the end result of rules changes instigated by DCI (The corps themselves).

The "students" accept it because they don't know any better.

The "fan$" are leary because the changes are/have altered/ruined an activity that is an American Tradition in many ways.

Edited July 19, 2007 by supersop

[Medeabrass]

People use the term Bandos to describe band kids, and DCI kids to describe Corps kids.

Aren't they the SAME kids? I don't know about years ago, but NOW, the kids are the same. The kids in Cadets, BD, Cavies, ARE the kids from Ayala, Carmel, Reagan, Westfield, North Penn, South Penn, Pig Penn, and wherever. Corps kids are marching in bands in the fall folks, I hate to break it to you. So are they Bandos in the fall, and DCI kids in the summer. Some may not even march competitively, but it stands to reason that a very high percentage of these "Corps" kids also march in school bands in the fall. Take away the Bandos from the Corps kids, and you'll have a very small contingent of dedicated "I only march Corps and Marching band is stupid" students.

Let's take their lead, and enjoy the fantastic performances this summer. What the heck, let's enjoy the performances this fall too!

I think a bando is that kid in marching band who's only in band for PE credit, takes no pride in him/herself, gives a 10% effort on a good day, doesn't care to work towards ANY goals, and can't even manage to wear his uniform correctly. Social skills are usually optional when I think of a bando. This generalization is of a segment of kids in band and by their very nature does not apply to kids in band who happen to march drum corps.

[MarimbasaurusRex]

While I don't disagree with the spirit of your post, there are a few misconceptions...

People use the term Bandos to describe band kids, and DCI kids to describe Corps kids.

Aren't they the SAME kids?

Not really. DCI age out is 22 and the average age of many div 1 corps is well over 18. I don't know very many 21 year old high school kids.

Timps have been grounded for years; The kids decided.

Bb is here to stay; The kids decided.

Those decisions and many others are/were made by adults. Kids don't decide anything in DCI. The DCI board of directors makes all the decisions. Not many kids directing corps. Nobody ever asked me to decide anything when I marched and I don't think that has changed over the years.

[harris120702]

While I don't disagree with the spirit of your post, there are a few misconceptions...

Not really. DCI age out is 22 and the average age of many div 1 corps is well over 18. I don't know very many 21 year old high school kids.

Didn't they march in HS? Might they march in college? Just because you aren't IN high school doesn't mean you didn't march when you WERE in HS.

Those decisions and many others are/were made by adults. Kids don't decide anything in DCI. The DCI board of directors makes all the decisions. Not many kids directing corps. Nobody ever asked me to decide anything when I marched and I don't think that has changed over the years.

That's my whole point. Kids will decide when this activity they have to pay for isn't worth it anymore. My guess is when 15-22 year olds find it an unattractive activity, they will quit participating. That is how they decide. They decide whether or not to give up a summer to march. When YOU marched, YOU decided if it was worth it.

[mbui]

Excellent post. I couldn't have said it myself.

I'm a marching band fan and a drum corps fan and I love both the summer and fall seasons. I attend DCI competitions as well as the Bands of America Regional & Grand National Championships and the excitement level is the same for me.

[cire]

a bando is that typical uber band kid. usually the annoying kid who lives for band. their life revolves around band, summer vacation highlights include band camp.. everything in their world is BAND. they are the ones that would wear their band uniforms everyday instead of regular clothes.

there are also band members, who are in the band.. do the band functions, but once band is over.. they go on with their lives.

then there are corps kids. they are the ones they may have been a band member, or may have been a band geek. but once they become corps kid, their lives revolve around corps. they live it and breathe it. much like the bando does.. but the corps person is different because they now know that band sucks compared to corps and that being a bando is immature and annoying. a corps person who has to go back to regular band will probably not get the same enjoyment as a bando or regular band member because the corps kid will know that there is much more out there than band.

personally, i think of the YEA (cadet) guys as bandos.. i know they all arent, but they just look like bandos.

[Patrick_D]

Old schoolers will say ....... yes they are similar .. and that's the problem.

Old schoolers will say ....... drum corps used to teach kids to play when their school system wouldn't/couldn't.

Old schoolers will say ....... I can't hum their tunes .... and I can't hum their tunes either.

Old schoolers will say ....... they play the same instruments so they are the same regardless of membership.

Old schoolers will say ....... you forgot to add all the universities that contribute to membership.

New schoolers will say..... why are you posting this .... it's all old news to us.

NEW and OLD schoolers will both say ..... I'm glad a band director feels the way you do about the experience and opportunity drum corps provides his students to further their music education .... and doesn't look down upon it as a way to ruin your chops and body for life.

Who decides is not the true issue. The true issue is who accepts the end result of rules changes instigated by DCI (The corps themselves).

The "students" accept it because they don't know any better.

The "fan$" are leary because the changes are/have altered/ruined an activity that is an American Tradition in many ways.

Hi Supersop,

I guess I don't understand your post, and i'm hoping you will explain it to me so I can understand.You stated that the changes have "ruined an activity that is an American Tradition in many ways." ????? how? Can you back that statement up with facts, or only your opinion? Its all up to opinion, which you are certainly entitled to, but can you please tell me how it has been "ruined in many ways"? It is EVOLVING. (of course I expect you to disagree with my opinion here, but hey, its mine.)

I agree with the originial poster in many ways, but hey, this is coming from another Band Director. It IS up to the kids. They certainly know what they are getting into. You can't honestly believe they "don't know any better." They are old enough to die for their country, but they can't decide that they like Bb horns (for the record i'm an advocate of G horns) or grounded Timps because according to you they "don't know any better"? Times change. People change. Activities change. The human race evolves.

In closing, if the fans are "leary because the changes..." then why is the activity so popular? Why are shows sold out? Why does ESPN bother with its broadcast?

Please explain, because I'm confused Supersop

With respect,

Patrick

[MarimbasaurusRex]

That's my whole point. Kids will decide when this activity they have to pay for isn't worth it anymore. My guess is when 15-22 year olds find it an unattractive activity, they will quit participating. That is how they decide. They decide whether or not to give up a summer to march. When YOU marched, YOU decided if it was worth it.

Many kids have decided it wasn't worth it, as I did my age out year. Judging from the number of kids marching corps then versus now (hundreds of corps then versus a handful now), it seems the ones who decided it wasn't worth it are a silent majority.