Switching from a G hornline to a Bb line

[camel lips]

Well, THAT ought to solve the problem that was put forth by the topic starter.

BTW,,that is a real T-shirt..You can get them directly from me.I have very few sizes left.Closeout priced at $13 bucks.

edwardamason@comcast.net B)

[Martybucs]

:P :P

It's funny, but I've spent most of my life paying to play my G bugle, (P/S, P/R,2V,3V).

When I play my Bb trumpet, people pay me for playing.

[camel lips]

It's funny, but I've spent most of my life paying to play my G bugle, (P/S, P/R,2V,3V).

When I play my Bb trumpet, people pay me for playing.

And that is a good thing when its a indoor environment or a mic event.But this is Drum and Bugle corps,,,not drum and trumpet corps.

Friends don't let friends,,,,well you know the rest. :P :P :P :P :P

[Browniebrick]

I'm wondering if there are lines out there that had marked changes/improvements in the quality of the ensemble when they switched from G to Bb. I don't think the biggest factors are the horns themselves, but the ability of the players to competently operate the horns under the circumstances we find ourselves in here and now. We have much less face time on the horns, and generally smaller ensembles playing in smaller venues. Back in our jr. corps days we likely were not switching back and forth as much either.

Given my reality, I'd like to know if switching to Bb is going to get me a better hornline.

Equipment will only do so much for any player or ensemble for that matter. Personal responsibility of each member/performer is the only longterm solution/answer. There are no quick and easy fixes for enhancing the overall technical expertise of any individual or ensemble (well ... short of aquiring the services of more adept musicians/performers !!!). More personal wood-shedding by members outside of rehearsal will enhance their individual performance level and allow the ensmble practice time to be spent on fine tuning the issues presented by the repertoire of choice.

Good luck with your mini-corps.

:) :)

[TicTickyTic]

Equipment will only do so much for any player or ensemble for that matter. Personal responsibility of each member/performer is the only longterm solution/answer. There are no quick and easy fixes for enhancing the overall technical expertise of any individual or ensemble (well ... short of aquiring the services of more adept musicians/performers !!!). More personal wood-shedding by members outside of rehearsal will enhance their individual performance level and allow the ensmble practice time to be spent on fine tuning the issues presented by the repertoire of choice.

Good luck with your mini-corps.

:) :)

Please everyone........

go to www.windsongpress.com

There you can read about Arnold Jacobs and the "Chicago way" (to quote the Untouchables!).

It is all about the wind and song baby! I don't care what key, make or model of horn you are blowing into, if there is no gas in the engine, you ain't goin' nowhere, and if the song is wrong, then nobody cares how loud and bad it will sound.

Wind and Song.

That's really about it.

Hope this helps.

Peace,

Dennis

I know in my heart that both of these answers are the absolute truth. This is good advice given by wise men. There is no quick solution to getting a group of brass players to play in tune. Ultimately the membership must have a strong concept of what it takes to play in tune, and a committment to make it happen. I think I have instituted a strong program given the circumstances I work under. At six hours a month, it's going to be a long haul to the promised land.

But, I will rephrase the question:

Well..... first I will make an analogy:

I play valve bone, and euphonium in my non corps life. I've done a fair amount of work on my improvisation skills. I've studied harmonic theory, and learned all my scales in every key. I can play a blues progression in all 12 keys, BUT I can WAIL when playing in the keys of Bb and E. Those keys feel like home base. I can make all 12 notes work, and could play chorus after chorus without repeating myself.

Now it could be argued that if I were a better musician, I would be able to play exactly what I'm thinking in every key, but I must admit that that is not the case. Having said that, If I'm on the bandstand and I want to impress someone with my soulful blues playing, what key blues tune should I call up? It matters.

Now I'm thinking it might save us some time if we create a situation that is going to allow my guys to play to their strengths. We live in a primarily Bb world. Most brass players find that Bb horns feel like "home". I'm wondering if brass instructors found an immediate positive result when switching from G to Bb. Does anyone have an experience to share?

I don't know the answer. If it's insignificant, then I'd like to stick with tradition, but I'm not interested in tradition getting in the way of progress. If people found it cleared up some issues when they switched, I would find that very intriguing. I've only got 6 hours a month.

[idontwan2know]

Gs can be played beautifully in tune, and so can Bbs.

Will going to Bbs suddenly cure all your tuning woes? No. If you have significant tuning issues then the ears are the root problem and Bbs will not fix that.

Will Bbs achieve better intonation with less rehearsal time? Yes, especially if as you indicate, they don't spend much time on Gs and lots of time on Bbs.

Is it worth the switch to make some gains in intonation? Depends on your situation, but I'd say probably no. Unless you're flush with cash and have other reasons to make the switch(like it or not, Bb vs. G is a major recruiting consideration if you're after a younger demographic).

Not even Arnold Jacobs would deny that the quality of the instrument has some bearing on your ability to make music with it and that all other things being equal, you should equip yourself with the best instrument you can.

[DCIFan77]

I've played in a corps with Bb and one with G's....I don't like the G's we got because they were A. Dynasty (tuning) B. I played Euphonium...so a: G (tuning) Dynasty (tuning!) Euphonium (tuning!!!!)

I personally like the nice brassy sound of a full G section, but only if they're in tune (or as tuned as possible)

Bb's have lots of pros too such as the broader list of supporting companies - more corps get sponsored.

:)

[Martybucs]

I would go with what you have equipment wise as long as it's in good condition.

People like to bash certain brands, but really these horns, from every manufacturer are made by craftsmen and women to tight specs. They try to come up with a middle of the road design that suits most musicians. As long as the horns are well cared for, they should perform as intended.

If you have players that have trouble playing in tune, I doubt the key of the horn will matter much.

Unsweetened, lemon juice will be sour if you drink it out of a glass, a cup, a mug, a stein, whatever; an unsweet player will be sour no matter what they're playing on.

[TicTickyTic]

I would go with what you have equipment wise as long as it's in good condition.

People like to bash certain brands, but really these horns, from every manufacturer are made by craftsmen and women to tight specs. They try to come up with a middle of the road design that suits most musicians. As long as the horns are well cared for, they should perform as intended.

If you have players that have trouble playing in tune, I doubt the key of the horn will matter much.

Unsweetened, lemon juice will be sour if you drink it out of a glass, a cup, a mug, a stein, whatever; an unsweet player will be sour no matter what they're playing on.

We have good equipment, if you consider a matched set of Kanstuls good equipment.

I'm not saying we have bad intonation, it just is not perfect (like I want), and I've noticed inconsistencies, especially after reviewing recordings. In the grand scheme, I bet were right in there with the best of you, as it is the rare and distinguished hornline that rises to the level even close to harmonic perfection. I'm potentially fingering the G-ness as a contributing factor to some inconsistency among some players, and this is my preliminary theory:

There are some good reasons to switch to Bb, and there are some good reasons to stay with G.

Bb:

• Somewhat shorter learning curve
  
• Easier for recruiting newer, and uninitiated membership
  
• Arguably more refined sound for indoor events with a smaller ensemble
  

G:

• Tradition
  
• No investment, as we already have the G horns
  

Maybe the solution is get ahold of some Bb horns and have a few rehearsals.

Anyone out there have a set of both, and have switched back and forth?

Bottom line is that if I want what I want, we should rehearse many hours every single day. Alas, life gets in the way.......

[G-horns]

It's funny, but I've spent most of my life paying to play my G bugle, (P/S, P/R,2V,3V).

When I play my Bb trumpet, people pay me for playing.

To quote Sara: "G for free, Bb for fee."