Switching from a G hornline to a Bb line

[G-horns]

We have good equipment, if you consider a matched set of Kanstuls good equipment.

I'm not saying we have bad intonation, it just is not perfect (like I want), and I've noticed inconsistencies, especially after reviewing recordings. In the grand scheme, I bet were right in there with the best of you, as it is the rare and distinguished hornline that rises to the level even close to harmonic perfection. I'm potentially fingering the G-ness as a contributing factor to some inconsistency among some players, and this is my preliminary theory:

There are some good reasons to switch to Bb, and there are some good reasons to stay with G.

Bb:

• Somewhat shorter learning curve
  
• Easier for recruiting newer, and uninitiated membership
  
• Arguably more refined sound for indoor events with a smaller ensemble
  

G:

• Tradition
  
• No investment, as we already have the G horns
  

Maybe the solution is get ahold of some Bb horns and have a few rehearsals.

Anyone out there have a set of both, and have switched back and forth?

Bottom line is that if I want what I want, we should rehearse many hours every single day. Alas, life gets in the way.......

Some very knowledgeable people have weighed in here with their opinion. That's good.

IMO, Kanstuls are about as good as you can get for G horns, in terms of intonation. Going to Bb's may offer some improvement. BUT, nothing short of woodshedding between rehearsals ON THE INSTRUMENT TO BE PLAYED will help the ensemble to achieve "perfect" intonation. One more thing on the intonation issue - a number of personal conditions can contribute to intonation issues, like sinus problems, physical alertness - even what the player had for breakfast.

So, if you want perfect intonation buy a good piano.

[Shadow_7]

Kanstul G's are about as good as it gets. You don't have much excuse for not playing in tune on those. Especially if you have the ones with the tune any note slides. Not to imply that it's gonna be easy to play in tune. But if you can't play in tune on those you probably wont on Bb's. It might be better, but not perfect on Bb's.

There are pros and cons either way. Now that I play in a Bb line, I'm left wondering why I'm doing this, and paying to do it. I could be playing with the local brass band or wind ensemble and paying a fraction of the money. Or playing in some other groups and making money. I do however practice more on Bb's since it's what I have the most experience on and a wider variety of horns to test/switch to. When I was playing in a G line, I tended to only practice my G bugle, while leaving all of my Bb horns cased up. Which meant I practiced less.

I like a good G line. But technically I really can't tell if a hornline is on Bb or G horns, unless I know before hand, or otherwise recognize the make/model of horns in use. I can kind of tell a difference from a distance as Bb's tend to have less of a presence from outside of the stadium. But that may just be my perception.

[TicTickyTic]

Kanstul G's are about as good as it gets. You don't have much excuse for not playing in tune on those. Especially if you have the ones with the tune any note slides. Not to imply that it's gonna be easy to play in tune. But if you can't play in tune on those you probably wont on Bb's. It might be better, but not perfect on Bb's.

There are pros and cons either way. Now that I play in a Bb line, I'm left wondering why I'm doing this, and paying to do it. I could be playing with the local brass band or wind ensemble and paying a fraction of the money. Or playing in some other groups and making money. I do however practice more on Bb's since it's what I have the most experience on and a wider variety of horns to test/switch to. When I was playing in a G line, I tended to only practice my G bugle, while leaving all of my Bb horns cased up. Which meant I practiced less.

I like a good G line. But technically I really can't tell if a hornline is on Bb or G horns, unless I know before hand, or otherwise recognize the make/model of horns in use. I can kind of tell a difference from a distance as Bb's tend to have less of a presence from outside of the stadium. But that may just be my perception.

About that "tune any note" feature... It's a great tool, but it can be part of the problem too, as it could just as well be called the "untune any note" feature if you carelessly forget it's there. I only play a couple minutes during our performances - I'm usually out front (not a great situation to do your best playing, I never feel settled). It was not until I listened to the recording of our performance last Saturday that I realized I must have accidently had the darn thing pulled out while playing the melody of Amazing Grace (the arrangement is mostly above the staff for lead bari, and I was behind everyone, and could not really hear the ensemble). I could not figure out why I was cracking my A's. I hate when that happens.

btw, I think I just came up with my next posting .......

[Shadow_7]

About that "tune any note" feature... It's a great tool, but it can be part of the problem too

Well, I've seen at least a couple kanstul sops with the thumb loop for the tune any note soldered to the 1st valve slide.

If the tune any note slide is there and you know how to use it, it's hard to play something that doesn't have it. But as you stated, if you're doing a solo and don't have a good feed from the corps to base your intonation off of, it can be problematic. Or playing in a quintet that's spaced out over 20 yards. Or in a line where non-brass players are learning how to play brass, and aren't quite sure what the slide does. Or even brass players that just don't realize which slide is a tuning slide for which part of the horn. Or even that there is a slide there.

On my Kanstul Euph, I thought the TAN was the main tuning slide. The joint for the main tuning slide was so well crafted that it was difficult to see any gap between the joints. It wasn't until using it for a year that it showed a gap. At which point I pulled on the tubing to see what this was, a broken weld? And to my surprise out moved a tuning slide. Which I eventually had cut so I could play on a bigger mouthpiece in colder weather. It's not like the horn came with a manual, even when ordered directly from the factory.

[mchromik]

On my Kanstul Euph, I thought the TAN was the main tuning slide. The joint for the main tuning slide was so well crafted that it was difficult to see any gap between the joints. It wasn't until using it for a year that it showed a gap. At which point I pulled on the tubing to see what this was, a broken weld? And to my surprise out moved a tuning slide. Which I eventually had cut so I could play on a bigger mouthpiece in colder weather. It's not like the horn came with a manual, even when ordered directly from the factory.

That's funny, the same thing happened to me when I got a Kanstul mello a couple of years ago. I played it for a couple of hours and thought; "This is interesting that I have to hold this TAN slide out". But then I noticed the little bump on the bend in the slide and thought; "Why would they put that there if you already have a nice loop to"........DOH. Boy did I feel dumb for a moment.

[MikeD]

Well it is a potential option. A very expensive one. I'm wondering if it is worth the effort.

Oh, I thought you had access to some Bb/F...I probably wouldn't go out and buy them "just because".

[notasop]

Please everyone........

go to www.windsongpress.com

There you can read about Arnold Jacobs and the "Chicago way" (to quote the Untouchables!).

It is all about the wind and song baby! I don't care what key, make or model of horn you are blowing into, if there is no gas in the engine, you ain't goin' nowhere, and if the song is wrong, then nobody cares how loud and bad it will sound.

Wind and Song.

That's really about it.

Hope this helps.

Peace,

Dennis

I totally agree with your statement. It is the player not the horn.