byline Posted August 13, 2007 Share Posted August 13, 2007 I personally like the idea of open interpretation on these shows. Why can't a show mean different things to different people, much like poetry. Why does there have to be a theme dictated to us, literally? This is a question I've been asking ever since narration, and the compulsion to explain, first gained a foothold in drum corps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdisney Posted August 13, 2007 Share Posted August 13, 2007 2) An earlier poster alluded to the idea that a bit more/less narration would have put Cadets over BD. It's not important which direction the poster said, and I forget, but my takeaway from this is: Do you really want the DCI World Championship decided over narration? "Oooh, just a bit more narration would just put them over the others..." "Man, I think if they had just gotten rid of that one line about blah blah blah, it would have made the difference." Looking at the scores, Cadets didn't win because they were 3rd in visual and 4th in music overall. So which part was affected by the narration, if any? If you can argue that music or visual was impacted by narration, then you can argue that Cadets score was affected by it, and then your scenario might be possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atlvalet Posted August 13, 2007 Share Posted August 13, 2007 (edited) Where to start... Just to give people some background so they know where I'm coming from... 1) I really don't like narration...I feel it's mostly a distraction than anything else. 2) I am a huge fan of the Cadets (so it's not as if I have an axe to grind). Our snareline was teched by a Cadets member when I marched. The percussion score for the corps I toured with (post-age out) in '93 was arranged by Tom Aungst (and he spent some time with the corps that summer). 3) I loved the '93 Star show from the get go, so it's not as if I'm against avant-guard concepts in drum corps. BTW, that was the best quality-of-sound drumline I've ever heard, period. (Thank you, Thom Hannum) I had heard about the narration in Cadets show, but had never seen it until quarterfinals. Heck, I had never seen narration until Crown and Bluecoats in quarterfinals. Anyway, I thought maybe it isn't that bad (not that I liked it in Crown's or Bluecoat's show). And now, to my reaction... I literally sat there with my mouth open, and my hand over my mouth...I could not believe how bad it was. It was cheesy. It was saccharine. It was plain old bad writing. I write for a living, and while not an indicator of aptitude (there are many bad writers who make a living), I know for a fact that that kind of content would be considered sub-par on a good day. I squirmed in my seat. I could not believe that the show designer gave that to the kids to perform. I kept saying to myself "This is horrible." When the kid was talking about how he never fit in anywhere, I put my head in my hands. I am sure that the show was good, but it was like mixing excrement with filet mignon. It doesn't matter that there was great stuff in the show (filet mignon), because who wants to pick through poop to get to the filet? Imagine steaming, hot garbage in a Bentley. It really doesn't matter that it's a Bentley at that point, you know what I mean? It's bad enough when someone is talking during a drum corps show. It's even worse when the corps is interrupting their own performance. How can you have some of the best arrangers in the business (Tom Aungst, for example) and spoil their writing with some of the worst I've heard in a long while. I mean, like someone else mentioned, there is better writing in the greeting card industry. On top of the narration, I couldn't hear parts of the horn book because it was masked by the terrible, hackneyed copy. All I know is that I hope this isn't the direction DCI is headed towards. I cheered loudly when they said "We'll do this part without talking" at finals. Drum Corps is an interactive medium. There's an audience. It's a big feedback loop. They cheer for stuff they like and don't for things that don't resonate with them. Drum corps is also competitive. This isn't some egalitarian, utopian music experiment. It's not art for art's sake. It's scored. So, please Cadets, take a clue and don't plan on ruining next years show too. Edited August 13, 2007 by atlvalet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcn8 Posted August 13, 2007 Share Posted August 13, 2007 (edited) Heh, I guess I have never heard any corps shows from 2001. I went to TOC in 2004 and had no idea that Cadets had ever played Moondance on the field until I just looked it up. Check out the 2001 show if you can... it's really a great show, particularly Young Persons's Guide and Moondance. Edit: Typo. Edited August 13, 2007 by jcn8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jami Posted August 13, 2007 Share Posted August 13, 2007 Agreed - '01 Cadets is one of my favorites. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
byline Posted August 13, 2007 Share Posted August 13, 2007 Wings...yay. Hey, how'd you get that without narration? :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted August 13, 2007 Share Posted August 13, 2007 Looking at the scores, Cadets didn't win because they were 3rd in visual and 4th in music overall. So which part was affected by the narration, if any? If you can argue that music or visual was impacted by narration, then you can argue that Cadets score was affected by it, and then your scenario might be possible. Well, they were a distant 4th in percussion....0.65 of the spread was there. Their Music Ensemble score was .5 from BD (3rd), but with the calculation it's less impact overall. Music Effect .1 behind. Hard to say if the narration helped, hurt, or neither. Esp without hearing the tapes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimedrummer Posted August 13, 2007 Share Posted August 13, 2007 (edited) Where to start... but it was like mixing excrement with filet mignon. [/quote Altvalet, I said before the season started that their show was like taking a great steak and ruining it with some really bad sauce. I still feel the same way. I will say that I was very impressed with the Cadets and would have enjoyed it very much without the cheesy the narration. Edited August 13, 2007 by oldtimedrummer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmahone Posted August 13, 2007 Share Posted August 13, 2007 Looking at the scores, Cadets didn't win because they were 3rd in visual and 4th in music overall. So which part was affected by the narration, if any? If you can argue that music or visual was impacted by narration, then you can argue that Cadets score was affected by it, and then your scenario might be possible. I agree with you that it may not have impacted this year's scenario. I was referring back to the previous poster, and I'm too lazy to do it now, too. My point is that there are many areas I'm comfortable with being the difference maker between two corps' scores, and narration is not one of them. I hope it never comes down to Corps A's narrator/script being just a little bit better than Corps B's, and therefore, Corps A squeaks by for the win. Actually, just to make sure I didn't make anything up, here's the quote from the earlier poster (perc2100) that led to my reply: I _TOTALLY_ agree. I think if The Cadets had a better script for the narrators, and the narrators were as accomplished in their oratory skills as they were in playing/marching, they would've beat Blue Devils by a bit." I don't have a bone to pick with perc2100, though I don't agree with the statement, and I hope it doesn't come down to better script writing and oratory skills. I hope finals spots are decided by things like better horn charts and performances, cleaner drumlines, and more exciting guard interpretation and other such aspects of the performances, to name a few. I mean, what happens if the Cadets had been placing slightly higher than BD during finals week, and then the narrator(s) choked up and forgot their lines, or the amplification went down, or they simply mistimed their delivery? Do we really want that to even count? A solo splats a note or a featured snare phrase is muddy or there are three equipment drops on a guard trick, sure, that counts. But how do you score problems with narration? Anyway, I didn't say this before, but I loved all the performances, and thought that all of the corps were very strong this year, all the way through. My kids (age 7 and 4) are really getting into drum corps and are always asking for "DCI, DCI, DCI" on the iPod when we're in the car, and I think there is an overwhelming amount of positive energy to take away from the performances this year! Cheers, Jerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VKMello84 Posted August 13, 2007 Share Posted August 13, 2007 Looking at the scores, Cadets didn't win because they were 3rd in visual and 4th in music overall. So which part was affected by the narration, if any? If you can argue that music or visual was impacted by narration, then you can argue that Cadets score was affected by it, and then your scenario might be possible.As I understand it, narration can impact the music score only. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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